Announcing WePlayCiv!

[Maquiladora]

Huh, only now I've lost my admin title I noticed that I'm a Deity, when did that happen?

Considering you've been here for the past decade, you've done well to keep your post count so low.

[Alinestra Covelia]

You forgot to thank me.

Sorry, you were being so modest that they all thought you were saying "and please... I don't want thanks..."

[Asher]

Three words: community, community, community (yes, I know that's one word three times ). Dale, Solver and I are not going to be calling the shots from high up in an ivory tower and behind closed doors, we will try to involve our community in every decision we make and have them help us build and shape the site every step of the way. We also want to provide the community with all the tools that they need to create, share, discuss, compete, etc; for example, in our opinion it's still far too hard for modders and artists to build, host and promote their content online, so we'll be focusing a lot on giving them more and easier-to-use tools for doing so. Additionally, we'll be trying to reach out to every Civ community on the web, promoting their content and building friendships between them -- not just with Poly and CFC but also 2K, RB, C4P, civilized.de, civ.org.pl, civfanatics.ru, etc, etc. We believe Civ fandom is all about community, and that the Civ community extends far beyond the domains of Apolyton.

It's very clear to me that you guys have not thought this through. And I'm not just talking about the fact that right now all the site is is vbDrupal default pages.

[Grandpa Troll]

It's very clear to me that you guys have not thought this through. And I'm not just talking about the fact that right now all the site is is vbDrupal default pages.

Asher, they did make an announcement sir, stating they could have waited several months or open up and bring it up to speed as fast as possible.

This is what is in the process of happening my friend.

Perhaps we will see you there?

In the meantime, we are moving forward at We Play Civ

Gramps

[Ben Kenobi]

I can only speak for myself (though I'm pretty sure Dale and Solver feel the same way), but all I care about is good Civ content and community. If Apolyton can continue to offer that, you will be able find me here for years and years to come...

I'm not Asher, and I think this is rather dubious. Dale gets stood down for his actions, which split Poly admin into his supporters and detractors. Dale gets upset because he thinks he did which was right, and annoyed that Poly doesn't rush to his defense, and even tells Asher that he has a place here.

Solver, I'd find it much more believable if you and Locutus didn't have Dale on as your staff, that this was all about good content and community. From my seat, Dale wanted to take his ball and go home, so he decided rather then put up with Poly, that he would start his own site, and pull everyone who had a beef with Poly along.

And we'll even be pimping cool Poly stuff on our site. We don't believe in site rivalry -- we believe that if you love Civ, you won't care too much about what URL you happen to be visiting;

You mentioned community. It is important to people, myself especially the community that is already at Apolyton. I can't really see the purpose of a third site, unless it's for the gratification of the administration. I'd rather see you and Locutus on board working here to make Poly better. You doing a stunt like this actually lowers my opinion of you.

all that should matter is whether the site has compelling content or not. There's no reason that can't be the case for more than 2 sites on the web (in fact, more people here ought to be checking out places like Realm's Beyond and the CivPlayers League, they've been doing awesome stuff for years that people here are barely aware of).

Smells of politics, and I know politics always has a role in these decisions.

Three words: community, community, community (yes, I know that's one word three times ). Dale, Solver and I are not going to be calling the shots from high up in an ivory tower and behind closed doors, we will try to involve our community in every decision we make and have them help us build and shape the site every step of the way.

Considering that the three of you didn't do it at Poly, I don't see why that would change with your new site. You all have bad habits. Bringing Dale on doesn't help you, what's going to happen, are you gonna ban all the trolls? Lock them out next time they get under your skin?

We also want to provide the community with all the tools that they need to create, share, discuss, compete, etc; for example, in our opinion it's still far too hard for modders and artists to build, host and promote their content online, so we'll be focusing a lot on giving them more and easier-to-use tools for doing so.

Why not do so on Apolyton?

Additionally, we'll be trying to reach out to every Civ community on the web, promoting their content and building friendships between them -- not just with Poly and CFC but also 2K, RB, C4P, civilized.de, civ.org.pl, civfanatics.ru, etc, etc. We believe Civ fandom is all about community, and that the Civ community extends far beyond the domains of Apolyton.

You've not really given a reason other then Dale getting his nose out of joint as to why you are starting a new site. All the things about building a community are great, but it seems to me you want to build YOUR community.

You guys are going to find out pretty quickly that the same hassles Poly dealt with are going to be your lot, with or without Asher.

[Ben Kenobi]

Perhaps we will see you there?

After that completely classless PM you sent me about Ming? Not a chance.

[Asher]

You mentioned community. It is important to people, myself especially the community that is already at Apolyton. I can't really see the purpose of a third site, unless it's for the gratification of the administration.

Exactly. First time in history I have agreed with you.

Adding a third site to the mix fragments the community, it doesn't make it stronger.

This is a completely harebrained idea that came about because Dale threw a hissy fit and burned his bridges at Apolyton with a death threat.

[Solver]

I will speak for myself here. By the way, Ben, you were responding to Locutus's post, not mine there

Starting a new site has minimal relation to last month's incident with Asher and Dale. Perhaps it sped the process up a bit and no more. I had been quite disappointed with Apolyton for the last year or so. I know Locutus had also contemplated stepping down before. For me, it's not about any single thing, it's a combination of what has been (and what hasn't) happening here.

WePlayCiv wasn't Dale's idea. It makes sense, though, for a site's administration to be composed of people who know each other. That's why Locutus, Dale and I are the founders. We've known each other for a fair amount of time, we've worked on projects together. And generally, we tend to think along similar lines which makes coming to decisions relatively easy. I can tell you that we had quite a bit of issues to discuss in the last couple of weeks, understandably, and at least I found our discussions quite easy going and efficient. Dale's actions vs. Asher being what they were, I would still like to know that I know Dale (as does Locutus) far better than Asher does or than you do. So I do know what I got into by agreeing to co-found a site with him.

Why not continue at Apolyton and why build a different community? That's a very fair question. For me, I haven't really felt like the Apolyton community is what it was. This isn't the site I joined those years ago. The community here that you mention is different. Also, it's mainly the off-topic community. Off topic had been contributing the majority of the site's traffic for quite a while. It's not really what I am interested in. While I appreciate how valuable an off-topic area is, I originally became staff here because I wanted to help out with a Civ community and Apolyton didn't really feel like one, not recently.

There was definitely the possibility of trying to continue here and run things my way. It's an option I considered but it would not be to the benefit of the community as a whole or myself. For instance, if I were to run Apolyton, I would want to do things that many of the most active users would disagree with. And where would the benefit in that be? For better or worse, people are used to things here being the way they are, who am I to take it away from them? Again, most of the site's community is, at this point, the OTF regulars. I don't consider myself part of that community and, likewise, to that community I am an outsider. I wouldn't want to force myself and my own ways onto them.

Of course you're right when you say that we want to build our community but that doesn't mean a community of people we choose. Again, anyone is welcome at WPC. But of course, we will run the site how we choose to - we're very much open to community feedback and involvement but some things are set in stone. One is that any newcomers are treated equally, irrespective of their actions and behaviour on other sites. New to WPC means new to WPC. And another thing is that we'll enforce rules against insults, personal attacks and the like. Of course we'll get trolls and problem posters eventually but we hope to deal with that effectively and, so to speak, with minimal casualties. I believe that we can manage maintaining a friendly atmosphere. At Apolyton, it's not just the atmosphere that I disliked, it's the fact that it was becoming less and less like a Civ site, it's like this place is only a civ site due to old momentum.

Please also understand that what I posted is a big oversimplification, the decision wasn't that easy and there were really many factors to it. Say, there's also the technical issue. Starting from scratch is far easier technically, just upgrading Apolyton's forums took a huge amount of time and effort. At WPC, we're definitely a barebones site right now but we have a functional forum and file database and we haven't even had the server for a week. While this post is certainly an oversimplification, it is absolutely honest.

[Robert]

All posts that are about past events or are not about weplayciv will be removed from this thread.
Everbody is free to like or dislike weplayciv and to express this, but personal attacks and continueing references to the past are good for nobody.

Let's burry the past (not without learning from it) and focus on the future.

[Asher]

I will speak for myself here. By the way, Ben, you were responding to Locutus's post, not mine there

Starting a new site has minimal relation to last month's incident with Asher and Dale.

Do you think we're stupid?

[Asher]

Asher, they did make an announcement sir, stating they could have waited several months or open up and bring it up to speed as fast as possible.

This is what is in the process of happening my friend.

Perhaps we will see you there?

In the meantime, we are moving forward at We Play Civ

Gramps

Our new friendly owner deleted my reply to this, so I'll simply say it again without the truth that people don't want to hear for my reasoning:
No chance in hell I will ever post at that site.

Not that it'll be around anymore than Eventis is around a year from now.

[Ben Kenobi]

I will speak for myself here. By the way, Ben, you were responding to Locutus's post, not mine there

My apologies Solver.

Starting a new site has minimal relation to last month's incident with Asher and Dale. Perhaps it sped the process up a bit and no more. I had been quite disappointed with Apolyton for the last year or so. I know Locutus had also contemplated stepping down before. For me, it's not about any single thing, it's a combination of what has been (and what hasn't) happening here.

Ok, you see I don't know your way of thinking or your dissatisfaction. That's not something I can really know unless you speak out about it. Please don't get me wrong, I have stood up for you and Locutus before, and I appreciated having you as part of the Apolyton community.

WePlayCiv wasn't Dale's idea. It makes sense, though, for a site's administration to be composed of people who know each other. That's why Locutus, Dale and I are the founders. We've known each other for a fair amount of time, we've worked on projects together. And generally, we tend to think along similar lines which makes coming to decisions relatively easy. I can tell you that we had quite a bit of issues to discuss in the last couple of weeks, understandably, and at least I found our discussions quite easy going and efficient. Dale's actions vs. Asher being what they were, I would still like to know that I know Dale (as does Locutus) far better than Asher does or than you do. So I do know what I got into by agreeing to co-found a site with him.

Please don't get me wrong, I've found myself in a similar situation where I got banned from a site for standing up for a banned member. I got labelled a sockpuppet, and after they were done purging my other friends, I left and we formed another site. Did you not see me arguing that Dale should stay? I understand your motivations for doing so, and wanting to get together, I just would prefer personally that you stayed on here.

Why not continue at Apolyton and why build a different community? That's a very fair question. For me, I haven't really felt like the Apolyton community is what it was. This isn't the site I joined those years ago. The community here that you mention is different. Also, it's mainly the off-topic community. Off topic had been contributing the majority of the site's traffic for quite a while. It's not really what I am interested in. While I appreciate how valuable an off-topic area is, I originally became staff here because I wanted to help out with a Civ community and Apolyton didn't really feel like one, not recently.

Would you consider me a primarily off-topic poster? I want to get your understanding of off-topic vs on-topic. I don't have the computer to run the newer games so there is little point in me posting in Civ3 or CIV for that matter. My impression is that the community pretty much remains the same as it's always been.

There was definitely the possibility of trying to continue here and run things my way. It's an option I considered but it would not be to the benefit of the community as a whole or myself. For instance, if I were to run Apolyton, I would want to do things that many of the most active users would disagree with.

Like what did you have in mind? I'm all ears Solver.

And where would the benefit in that be? For better or worse, people are used to things here being the way they are, who am I to take it away from them? Again, most of the site's community is, at this point, the OTF regulars. I don't consider myself part of that community and, likewise, to that community I am an outsider. I wouldn't want to force myself and my own ways onto them.

Most posters usually start in the ontopic and gravitate to Offtopic. I don't see any reason why you couldn't become a part of the offtopic community, it's not like there's a limited membership. You jump in get flamed and go from there.

Of course you're right when you say that we want to build our community but that doesn't mean a community of people we choose. Again, anyone is welcome at WPC. But of course, we will run the site how we choose to - we're very much open to community feedback and involvement but some things are set in stone.

It's your site, your rules. I used to moderate for a fellow who had specific and contradictory goals. He's since adopted my suggestions, although I no longer moderate there. What's more important to you, is whether it's a community that you feel comfortable in. Nothing wrong with that at all, it's your site. It will help you to be honest about this with yourself from the start.

One is that any newcomers are treated equally, irrespective of their actions and behaviour on other sites. New to WPC means new to WPC. And another thing is that we'll enforce rules against insults, personal attacks and the like. Of course we'll get trolls and problem posters eventually but we hope to deal with that effectively and, so to speak, with minimal casualties. I believe that we can manage maintaining a friendly atmosphere. At Apolyton, it's not just the atmosphere that I disliked, it's the fact that it was becoming less and less like a Civ site, it's like this place is only a civ site due to old momentum.

It's a lull. Frankly, I'm of the thought that there's not much they can do. However, with the recent poll showing that 65 percent of offtopic regulars still play civ regularly, and 95 still play occasionally, that leads me to believe the one thread that brings everyone together (except besides Asher), is their enjoyment of the civ genre.

Please also understand that what I posted is a big oversimplification, the decision wasn't that easy and there were really many factors to it. Say, there's also the technical issue. Starting from scratch is far easier technically, just upgrading Apolyton's forums took a huge amount of time and effort.

Easier and harder. I've done both jobs, and it's more satisfying to upgrade then to start from scratch.

At WPC, we're definitely a barebones site right now but we have a functional forum and file database and we haven't even had the server for a week. While this post is certainly an oversimplification, it is absolutely honest.

Solver, don't get me wrong here. I respect your abilities. I am disappointed that you don't feel Poly is worth the effort to set right. That is something you and I will have to agree to disagree. I hope that your site provides you what you are looking for, but I know there are going to be times when you wonder whether it is all worth it.

I won't be there though. Poly did a fine tribute for my father.

[Solver]

Do you think we're stupid?

I understand that you have a big ego and like to believe that even a new site being founded is directly related to you. Sorry to disappoint you I can't make you believe me, and don't want to waste effort trying to do so, you can believe what you want to, but I'm being honest here. Oh, and another bit. The decision to found WePlayCiv came in the wake of Dan's resignation. When Dan announced that he was going to resign, both Locutus and I - both of us having considered resignation before - had to rethink our future in the Civ community. The idea to move on to a different site came before you received a certain PM.

Really, I'd gladly invite you to an open and honest conversation, privately or at WPC, if you are willing and capable of that.

[Asher]

I understand that you have a big ego and like to believe that even a new site being founded is directly related to you.

Give me a break. Dale gets banned from this site, weeks later Dale launches a site (where he seems to do most of the posting) that was clearly put together in just a few days.

Not related? Come on.

If this was planned before hand like you imply, then it looks even worse. Did Dale create the ****storm he did on Apolyton intentionally to cause a schism in the administration so he could leach the playerbase as you guys are trying to do now?

Either way, utterly shameful.

The best way to build a community is to unite it, not fragment it. You guys are doing a helluva job trying to kill it. The fact that several of your more prominent posters on your new site are aggressively PMing and trying to steal posters from Apolyton is just despicable.

I've had no less then 4 PMs from people on your site begging me to come post there instead. I don't understand why. Either Dale and Locutus would enjoy the power to arbitrarily ban me and get off on it, or you guys are just trying to steal anyone from Apolyton you can.

If Cybershy had the guts, he should just close this thread.

[Heraclitus]

Swine flue, economic depressions and the breakup of the ASCSSR. The future sucks.