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[-Jrabbit]

Yeah, as if Witten isn't the better player.

Not good enough to stick on your team, apparently.
You booted him in favor of who? Oh yeah, Delanie Walker...

Seriously, what did Witten do to offend you? Did he have an abortion or something?

[MRT144]

I dont get it either as Witten is a direct upgrade for almost half the league. If you think Romo and the Cowboys are going to be throwing absurd amounts due to their seemingly atrocious defense, Witten could be a top 5 at best, and if its standard operating procedure he's clearly a top 12 TE. Health will be an issue to be sure, for both him and Romo but I think we'll see a lot of Romo in Shotgun and just slinging it.

[Ben Kenobi]

I dont get it either as Witten is a direct upgrade for almost half the league.

I made four offers to four different teams. All were fair deals. All four turned me down. I don't get it either, but apparently this league is down on Witten.

I was looking for a RB or WR upgrade on what I have. Figured Witten was good trade bait.

He's useless to me if nobody wants him.

[Ben Kenobi]

Seriously, what did Witten do to offend you? Did he have an abortion or something?

I will laugh if Witten beats you. I made you a fair offer. Folks don't want to deal with me, ok. But don't complain when you end up on the short stick.

[-Jrabbit]

It had nothing to do with you, Ben. The incremental value of Witten over my starter, Kyle Rudolph, was marginal. Certainly not worth giving up my starting flex/WR3. You were actually asking me to give up two starters (give one to you, plus benching Rudolph), just for a slight upgrade at TE (theoretically).

If 4 teams turned down your proposal, maybe -- just maybe -- the problem was with the proposal, not the other managers.

Why that inspired you to drop a legit TE1 that you bid for in auction, before the season even began and for zero return, is a mystery. Frankly, you're the one who should be worrying about Witten costing you games.

[MRT144]

It had nothing to do with you, Ben. The incremental value of Witten over my starter, Kyle Rudolph, was marginal. Certainly not worth giving up my starting flex/WR3. You were actually asking me to give up two starters (give one to you, plus benching Rudolph), just for a slight upgrade at TE (theoretically).

If 4 teams turned down your proposal, maybe -- just maybe -- the problem was with the proposal, not the other managers.

Why that inspired you to drop a legit TE1 that you bid for in auction, before the season even began and for zero return, is a mystery. Frankly, you're the one who should be worrying about Witten costing you games.

This statement basically is contrary to everything Ben believes about himself. Have you ever, in all your time on Poly, ever seen Ben go "Gee, nobody agrees with me, I must be off or something". It is his goddamn nature to act this way.

On top of that, in this specific instance, he doesn't have have the foresight to realize that stashing a player like Witten and not getting any trade value is probably a better move than letting him go to free agency or waivers for the have nots.

I have no idea why Ben lets his outsized ego get in the way of being rational but he does, all the time.

God, the more I think about this Ben, the more I think you let your petulance get the best of you yet again.

[Ben Kenobi]

If 4 teams turned down your proposal, maybe -- just maybe -- the problem was with the proposal, not the other managers.

Nope, the feedback I got is that nobody was really interested in Witten. They all said they were reasonable offers. (including you).

Your team was better off with Witten. Dunno why you would pass up on an offer that made your team stronger. Oh well. At least Witten will go to a team that appreciates him. GL MRT. I hope he kicks ass for you all year.

[MRT144]

If a ship was sinking Ben would not only argue with you about whether the ship was sinking, he'd also argue about where the muster station is, and on top of that probably do nothing because of some self assured faith that nothing bad can happen to him.

[Ben Kenobi]

This statement basically is contrary to everything Ben believes about himself. Have you ever, in all your time on Poly, ever seen Ben go "Gee, nobody agrees with me, I must be off or something". It is his goddamn nature to act this way.

I'm heartened to see that there was significant interest in Witten, contrary to JR's statement. He says it wasn't about me, and then he's shocked when he sees that his choice has negative consequences for him.

On top of that, in this specific instance, he doesn't have have the foresight to realize that stashing a player like Witten and not getting any trade value is probably a better move than letting him go to free agency or waivers for the have nots.

When all four players state that they have little interest in Witten - yes it makes me re-evaluate his value to the other players. If I were, in fact, determined to prove Witten's value, why would I have let him go?

I did make fair offers, found that the market value was less than expected then I dropped him. That's what you call a re-assessment of the value of the player.

Now, since I have a good estimate as to the actual market value (as seen by the waivers), I can assess that the problem wasn't the deals. It was me.

God, the more I think about this Ben, the more I think you let your petulance get the best of you yet again

What petulance? I'm not the one who turned down a good deal that would strengthen his team. JR did. Rather than take a rational approach to the problem (hey, I'm actually on the plus side in this deal), he chose to make an irrational decision. Now he's upset when he sees that it cost him.

[Ben Kenobi]

If a ship was sinking Ben would not only argue with you about whether the ship was sinking, he'd also argue about where the muster station is, and on top of that probably do nothing because of some self assured faith that nothing bad can happen to him.

I'm happy he's with someone who appreciates his value. Witten's been good to me over the years. Felt it was time to go in another direction.

You do notice I passed over him in IDP as well.

I grabbed him in auction because I felt he was good value for what was being offered. I thought the bids were too low. So I figured I'd use him for trade bait.

[snoopy369]

Sorry, Ben, Witten for Floyd is laughable. Among those who believe in him, and in an Auction league you can assume a believer bought him, Floyd is a top-15 WR. There are probably 2 TEs I'd consider trading Floyd straight up for in the league I have him in. Witten is most certainly not one of them.

Add to that the fact that you're offering someone a trade in a position they're not particularly weak in (Witten is an upgrade over Rudolph, but not a substantial one), and you have an example of a stupid trade.

As to why you dropped him... let's just say that football reasons should be the only factor as to why moves are made.

[MRT144]

I'm heartened to see that there was significant interest in Witten, contrary to JR's statement. He says it wasn't about me, and then he's shocked when he sees that his choice has negative consequences for him.



When all four players state that they have little interest in Witten - yes it makes me re-evaluate his value to the other players. If I were, in fact, determined to prove Witten's value, why would I have let him go?

I did make fair offers, found that the market value was less than expected then I dropped him. That's what you call a re-assessment of the value of the player.

Now, since I have a good estimate as to the actual market value (as seen by the waivers), I can assess that the problem wasn't the deals. It was me.



What petulance? I'm not the one who turned down a good deal that would strengthen his team. JR did. Rather than take a rational approach to the problem (hey, I'm actually on the plus side in this deal), he chose to make an irrational decision. Now he's upset when he sees that it cost him.

You're arguing opinions as fact, again. Look, I know you have no idea what self doubt is but what if you're wrong about the fairness of these trades? What leads you to believe that these were fair trades in the first place? Further, after no offers were accepted, what makes you think they were fair trades? Also, yes, there is an overarching principle to not carrying players who you won't start and trying to get value but my god, you basically went nuclear and thought "well, if nobody wants him in a trade i deem fair, he's trash". Why wouldn't you think "Maybe the offers I made were kinda dumb and I should try not only other trade partners but maybe different players." I admit I don't have anyone who would fit a flex position for you without depriving myself of a flex position, unless you had wanted Welker. Even so, if another player had released Witten what would your opinion of it be? Step outside yourself for a moment.

Do you ever question whether or not you're correct in your perception? I mean, this goes beyond just fantasy football but you seem hell bent on never admitting that you were incorrect in any facet. You might actually have people meet you half way on these things if you restrained your ego. I get that you are a devout catholic but save the infallibility to your god, not yourself.

[MRT144]

Also, I'm absolutely not complaining about my good fortune, I just like seeing correct process, correct outcome in games. Except Blood Bowl

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry, Ben, Witten for Floyd is laughable. Among those who believe in him, and in an Auction league you can assume a believer bought him, Floyd is a top-15 WR. There are probably 2 TEs I'd consider trading Floyd straight up for in the league I have him in. Witten is most certainly not one of them.

As I said, Witten's value among the league is lower than I would have anticipated. The man's a solid TE. I'm a bit shocked folks are rating him so low, but whatever.

Add to that the fact that you're offering someone a trade in a position they're not particularly weak in (Witten is an upgrade over Rudolph, but not a substantial one), and you have an example of a stupid trade.

Rudolph is a ****ty TE, who plays with a terrible QB on a Run first team. No upside.

As to why you dropped him... let's just say that football reasons should be the only factor as to why moves are made.

Well, now he's with someone who can appreciate him, so I'll be quite happy if all the folks who pissed on Witten get shown up.

[MRT144]

Again Ben, you have to actually consider other people's perceptions when making a trade offer. You seem incapable of doing so.