NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

[Donegeal]

Is Luck the best QB based on yardage? By far. Is yardage the most team independent measure of his contribution on the field? Also yes.

This is actually a very good post and he does have a very valid point by it. But it is also why you're Valedictorian analogy is bad. There are more factors involved in determining ROY than just passing yardage.

[Ben Kenobi]

But it is also why you're Valedictorian analogy is bad. There are more factors involved in determining ROY than just passing yardage.

True. For me it's about the ratio. He's significantly above everyone else in that stat. It's not just that he's leading, it's that he's dominant.

[Ben Kenobi]

A 99 yard drive capped by a 1 yard TD run is a more impressive than a 60 yard rush capped by a 1 yard TD pass. There. I answered, but it is a stupid question because it is not relevant to the disscussion we're having.

Thank you.

As for your question - no, not really. I don't think that the length of time that a record has stood is necessarily an indicator of it's significance. What is important is by how much the record is broken. Wayne Gretzky redefined hockey. Does that make what Mario Lemieux did less significant because he came on the heels of Gretzky? No.

[Al B. Sure!]

Be careful, Albert might accuse you of being fickle. That was his position just last week.

Obviously it was transient and someone could break away from the pack. Wilson has. You don't blow the hell out of the 49ers with 4 passing touchdowns and not pull away.


Hey, Ben, you're obsessed with yards.... what about yards per attempt?

Luck: 6.98
Wilson: 7.67
RG3: 8.27

Wilson and RG3 are both getting more yards per pass attempt. Then add in their rushing chops (Luck is a pretty good runner as well, I should note) and they do more every chance they get. Luck just gets a ****load more chances but he does less with every dropback.


And about Wilson not being a 3000 yard passer. That may be true but he's only 132 yards away. He'll finish with over 3000 yards.

[Ben Kenobi]

Obviously it was transient and someone could break away from the pack. Wilson has.

Nonsense. Luck's lead has continued to grow.

You don't blow the hell out of the 49ers with 4 passing touchdowns and not pull away.

He only threw for 150.

Hey, Ben, you're obsessed with yards.... what about yards per attempt?

Luck: 6.98
Wilson: 7.67
RG3: 8.27

What about it? Given Luck's yardage advantage makes up for the rate stats ratio and then some. 8:7 < 3:2.

Luck just gets a ****load more chances but he does less with every dropback.

Sure, but Luck's greater overall productivity is notable. It's like arguing someone who works more hours is less valuable than someone who works fewer, but more productive hours. It all depends on just how much more productive. Luck works enough hours and is sufficiently productive in those hours to produce much more than either RGIII or Wilson. If Wilson or RGIII threw as much as Luck, they would not be as productive as Luck.

[-Jrabbit]

If Wilson or RGIII threw as much as Luck, they would not be as productive as Luck.

Not that I want to be part of this discussion, but the math says they both would. How do you explain the disparity in yards per attempt?

[Al B. Sure!]

He only threw for 150.

That's what happens when you are blowing a team out in the first half. Consider this has been the story each of the past 3 games (58-0, 50-17, 42-13). Wilson has no reason to throw 30x a game.

And when he has thrown 30+ pass attempts, he was just as efficient. 37 pass attempts in the 23-17 win over the Bears; a game he threw for 293yds 2TDs no picks and a QB rating of 104.9. In the close 28-24 loss to the Lions, he threw 35 times at 71.4% and a QB rating of 96.8.

This is the guy that went toe to toe with Brady and won.

In his past 7 games, Wilson has thrown 15 touchdowns and two picks!!! That's Brady/Rodgers territory! Plus 3 rushing scores!

What about it? Given Luck's yardage advantage makes up for the rate stats ratio and then some. 8:7 < 3:2.

There goes Ben's classic fuzzy math. Are you really comparing ratios of ratios?

The ratio of Luck's total yardage to Wilson's total yardage compared to the ratio of Luck's ratio of yards and attempts to Wilson's ratio of yards and attempts. *head explodes*


Wilson is completing 63.4% of his passes at 7.7 yards per attempt.

Luck is completing 54.3% of his passes at 7.0 yards per attempt.

Luck's numbers are basically at the Mendoza line. It's impressive for a rookie but Wilson's (and RG3's numbers, which are even better) are otherworldly for a rookie QB.

[MRT144]

Yeah, according to football outsiders Luck is inbetween dalton and bradford while wilson is between stafford and schaub.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

[Ben Kenobi]

Not that I want to be part of this discussion, but the math says they both would. How do you explain the disparity in yards per attempt?

Rate stats decrease over higher volume. You're a manager, you should understand this.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah, according to football outsiders Luck is inbetween dalton and bradford while wilson is between stafford and schaub.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Sanchez is not worse than Ryan Lindley. As bad as Sanchez has been, he hasn't been that bad.

I'm trying to figure out the logic. Lindley has a worse completion % (52% vs. 55%), has thrown no TDs with 7 picks (Sanchez: 13 TDs, 17 picks), and has a 3.51 yards per attempt (vs. 5.52 for Sanchez).

Granted, Lindley's offensive line is terrible but if there were still any doubts about how bad the Jets o-line is after that Tennessee game, the 11 sack performance by the Chargers defense clearly puts the Jets o-line in the same region as the Arizona o-line.

Lindley also has the advantage of one of the great WR's in Fitzgerald while Sanchez's top target was Jeremy Kerley.


The FBO formulas that determine that Sanchez has been worse than Lindley are failing both the stats and eye test. Sanchez' surrounding cast is equal or worse than what Lindley is working with and Sanchez has outperformed him on all statistical measures. Sanchez is not worse than Lindley.

[MRT144]

You also thought it was asinine that they predicted rivers to be worse than dalton at fantasy football...so whats your deal?

[Donegeal]

Sanchez will forever be known only for one thing: Buttfumble.

[MRT144]

Also look at the difference between DYAR and DVOA. Sanchez is better than Lindley on DVOA...so there's that.

[SlowwHand]

Al, you're down to comparing Sanchez to Ryan Lindley? A rookie taken in the 6th round? You've now defined how sad Sanchez is as a QB.

[Al B. Sure!]

Former Eagle Jason Babin rips into his old team with an interesting quote:

"They have a different approach and a different style than I do," Babin said about the Eagles. "You saw how dirty they did (Jim) Washburn with leaking out the false stories and the way they talked about him on the way out. It’s kind of a big socialistic system that they have. I didn’t really care. I’m only going to worry about what I can control, and that’s practicing hard, working hard and playing hard on Sunday."

Socialistic would explain Andy Reid's apparent coaching philosophy the past two years... from each according to his ability to just plain sucking