NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[Al B. Sure!]

ESPN has an article on the 10 biggest NFL 'oversights': guys that NFL teams, saw nothing in them and passed on them, only to have them do big things elsewhere. It's an Insider article so I can't see it but I highly doubt Doug Flutie is on it

Two names on the list, though, are of course, quarterbacks who actually were on teams that did just what Ben claims the Bears and Pats did with Doug Flutie... Steve Young and Brett Favre.

Though, to be fair, I don't think Atlanta Falcons Favre or Tampa Bay Young would have ever amounted to anything. The change of scenery, different coaches, different offenses, better supporting cast, and, in the case of Steve Young, time to learn on the bench, contributed to their eventual success.

[Ben Kenobi]

And how different is that from my argument that the Bears are terrible for QB development? If a team that sucks at QB development gives up on a player, they usually dump quality.

[-Jrabbit]

Once again, you conveniently ignore the fact that Jim McMahon, a Pro Bowler, a Super Bowl winner, and a galvanizing leader, was the starter at the time. He was in his prime; QB was a done deal on that team. Flutie was a stopgap/emergency starter only, was years away from developing, and was a terrible locker room fit for the Shufflin' Crew - although he is, admittedly, a better drummer than Walter Payton ever was.

McMahon was definitely a vocal opponent of the acquisition, basically in defense of Fuller and Tomczak, who were his friends. It created dischord that simply would not go away. Ultimately, Flutie was traded because of the internal dissension, not because of talent. Ditka believed in him and didn't want him traded, but Flutie REQUESTED that they pull the trigger and send him to New England because he was in such a bad situation here.

they usually dump quality.

Oh and yes, please name all the other quality QBs that the Bears have cut over the past 30 years or so.

Mike Phipps (released)
Vince Evans (released)
Bob Avellini (released)
Jim McMahon (traded)
Steve Fuller (released)
Rusty Lisch (released)
Greg Landry (retired)
Mike Tomczak (free agency)
Doug Flutie (traded)
Jim Harbaugh (released)
Peter Tom Willis (released)
Will Furrer (released)
Erik Kramer (released)
Steve Walsh (free agency)
Dave Krieg (not re-signed)
Mick Mirer (released)
Steve Stenstrom (released)
Moses Moreno (released)
Shane Matthews (no re-signed)
Cade McNown (traded)
Jim Miller (released)
Chris Chandler (not re-signed)
Henry Burris (released)
Kordell Stewart (released)
Jonathan Quinn (released)
Craig Krenzel (released)
Chad Hutchinson (released)
Kyle Orton (traded)
Rex Grossman (free agency)
Brian Griese (traded)
Caleb Hanie (current)
Brett Basanez (waived/injured)
Jay Cutler (current)
Todd Collins (current; will be released)
Matt Gutierrez (current)

So take your hindsight, your revisionism, and your inaccuracies somewhere else, Ben.

[Al B. Sure!]

Hey Henry Burris is a monster for the Calgary Stampeders. There's another superstar QB that the Bears ****ed up on that is dominant in Canada

[-Jrabbit]

I found it interesting that it was Flutie who asked the Bears to pull the trigger on the trade to New England.
Ditka wanted to keep him.
Fact.
(Cite: "Flutie," by Doug Flutie with Perry Lefko, pp. 71-72)

Amazing that Kenobi can't even talk about his hero without misrepresenting the facts.

[Ben Kenobi]

Once again, you conveniently ignore the fact that Jim McMahon, a Pro Bowler, a Super Bowl winner, and a galvanizing leader, was the starter at the time.

How'd that work out for you? If he was the future of the bears when did they draft a number one QB ?

He was in his prime; QB was a done deal on that team. Flutie was a stopgap/emergency starter only, was years away from developing, and was a terrible locker room fit for the Shufflin' Crew - although he is, admittedly, a better drummer than Walter Payton ever was.

Which is why the Bears drafted a first round QB, because they were convinced McMahon was the future.

McMahon was definitely a vocal opponent of the acquisition, basically in defense of Fuller and Tomczak, who were his friends. It created dischord that simply would not go away.

Absolutely because McMahon was a mediocre QB, and was the weak link on a superbowl winner and feared that his job was in jeopardy. How is Flutie to blame for discord initiated by McMahon?

Ultimately, Flutie was traded because of the internal dissension, not because of talent. Ditka believed in him and didn't want him traded, but Flutie REQUESTED that they pull the trigger and send him to New England because he was in such a bad situation here.

A situation that was entirely the fault of McMahon. Mcmahon screwed you guys over which is why you never went back to the supberbowl.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh and yes, please name all the other quality QBs that the Bears have cut over the past 30 years or so.

That's supposed to convince me that the Bears know how to find NFL level QBS?

Flutie's by far the best of the lot, but that's 30 years of futility. 30 years!

[Al B. Sure!]

Flutie's by far the best of the lot

How many Grey Cups will Henry Burris have to win for him to be second best of the lot by a slim margin?

Statistically, Burris is right behind Flutie in the CFL.

[Ben Kenobi]

Flutie has 57k overall. Burris has what, 37k in the CFL? That's a pretty big margin.

[Al B. Sure!]

Flutie has 57k overall. Burris has what, 37k in the CFL? That's a pretty big margin.

Where do you get your stats from?

Doug Flutie in the CFL:
41,355 yards 270 TD 155 INT 4660 rushing 66 rushing TD

Henry Burris:
37,547 yards 237 TD 142 INT 4007 rushing 51 rushing TD

Burris is on Flutie's ass.

[Ming]

Why even bother discussing the CFL in a NFL thread... it's a kiddie league for those who aren't good enough for REAL football. Like the college football thread, maybe you should just start a CFL thread so that you can take this discussion some where else... Talking about the CFL in context with the NFL is simply a farce. It's not top tier football... just a bunch of players that couldn't make it in the big show.

[Al B. Sure!]

Why even bother discussing the CFL in a NFL thread... it's a kiddie league for those who aren't good enough for REAL football. Like the college football thread, maybe you should just start a CFL thread so that you can take this discussion some where else... Talking about the CFL in context with the NFL is simply a farce. It's not top tier football... just a bunch of players that couldn't make it in the big show.

Yes but the fact that Doug Flutie and Henry Burris were let go by those 'great appraisers' of talent at the QB position known as the Chicago Bears and they are the best in the CFL, somehow means they are the greatest QB's in pro football history, no matter the league!

[Ming]

CFL stats are just that... CFL stats! Totally meaningless when discussing the NFL. The CFL is minor league football at best and shouldn't be discussed in terms of the NFL. Sure, a couple of CFLers may succeed in the NFL every few years, but even college football provides more starters in their first year than the CFL provides the NFL... proving just how low level football the CFL really is. So take your CFL discussions to another thread... they aren't worthy of a NFL thread.

[Al B. Sure!]

CFL stats are just that... CFL stats! Totally meaningless when discussing the NFL. The CFL is minor league football at best and shouldn't be discussed in terms of the NFL. Sure, a couple of CFLers may succeed in the NFL every few years, but even college football provides more starters in their first year than the CFL provides the NFL... proving just how low level football the CFL really is. So take your CFL discussions to another thread... they aren't worthy of a NFL thread.

Sounds like Ming is mad he isn't a mod anymore.

[Ming]

Uhhh... you might want to check who the listed mods are for this forum