NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - Off Season

[SlowwHand]

I'm not necessarily saying Kolb should start, I'm saying they should trade him to get a return, rather than letting him just walk away.
He isn't going to stay after his contract expires, I don't think. Not if he doesn't start this year, which he obviously won't, unless there's an injury.
Even if he starts due to injury, I think his desire to stay will have already diminished.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah. In either case, Kolb is in the final year of his contract and Vick has been franchise tagged. If they keep both, after the end of this season, both Kolb and Vick will be unrestricted free agents. Only one is going to get the long-term deal and big bucks out of the Eagles.

If the Eagles want to get anything out of either player, they will trade one. Vick is franchise tagged. He's not getting traded.

And for all of Ben's hype, Kolb is very unproven. Vick is a proven commodity who had fantastic performances while healthy and led the Eagles to the playoffs and a down to the wire loss to the eventual Super Bowl champs in the playoffs. Vick clearly gives the Eagles a better chance to win in the short-term.

[Al B. Sure!]

Vick vs. Kolb isn't even close.

With Kolb, you can expect this:
201 yards 1 TD 1 INT in 3 quarters vs. Washington
253 yards 1 TD vs. San Fran
326 yards 3 TD 1 INT vs. Atlanta
231 yards 1 TD 2 INT vs. Tennessee
162 yards 1 TD 3 INT vs. Dallas

He had 1 fantastic game, 2 okay games, 1 ehh game, and 1 terrible game.

With Vick, you get:
284 yards 2 TD vs. Detroit
291 yards 3 TD 1 rushing TD vs. Jacksonville
218 yards 1 TD 1 rushing TD plus 74 yards rushing vs. Indianapolis
333 yards 4 TD 2 rushing TD plus 80 yards rushing vs. Washington
258 yards 1 rushing TD vs. New York Giants
333 yards 2 TD 1 INT vs. Chicago
302 yards 2 TD 1 rushing TD 1 INT vs. Houston
270 yards 2 TD 1 rushing TD 2 INT vs. Dallas
242 yards 3 TD 1 rushing TD 1 INT plus 130 yards rushing vs. New York Giants
263 yards 1 TD 1 rushing TD 1 INT vs. Minnesota
292 yards 1 TD 1 rushing TD 1 INT vs. Green Bay in playoffs

It's not even close! Did Vick even have a single bad game? No. He was good to stellar every time he took the field.

Vick averaged 280 yards passing, 50 yards rushing, 1.9 passing TD, 0.8 rushing TD with only .54 INT per game when healthy and starting. That is very good.


For comparison,
Vick: 330 passing/rushing yards, 2.7 passing/rushing TD, 0.54 INT per game
Peyton Manning: 293 yards, 2.06 TD, 1.06 INT per game
Tom Brady: 243 yards, 2.25 TD, 0.25 INT per game
Aaron Rodgers: 285 passing/rushing yards, 2.13 passing/rushing TD, 0.73 INT per game

On a per game basis, Vick was the best QB in the NFL last year. He acquired more yards per game, scored more TDs, and was only bested by Tom Brady in the not giving up interceptions department.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah. In either case, Kolb is in the final year of his contract and Vick has been franchise tagged. If they keep both, after the end of this season, both Kolb and Vick will be unrestricted free agents. Only one is going to get the long-term deal and big bucks out of the Eagles.

I would argue long term that the Eagles would be better going off with Kolb, and letting some other team spend the big bucks on Vick. Sell high, buy low.

And for all of Ben's hype, Kolb is very unproven. Vick is a proven commodity who had fantastic performances while healthy

He's a proven player, in that other than this year, has been a mediocre QB. Are you willing to sell the farm to keep Vick in the hope he pulls a repeat performance? I wouldn't. I'd bag and tag and bring in the haul of picks. Let someone else deal with the hassles of keeping him healthy.

Vick clearly gives the Eagles a better chance to win in the short-term.

At the cost of losing all their development time with Kolb, and their long term future. And you're betting that he not only repeats last year, which wasn't sufficient to give them a sniff of the superbowls. IMO, not worth the risk.

On a per game basis, Vick was the best QB in the NFL last year. He acquired more yards per game, scored more TDs, and was only bested by Tom Brady in the not giving up interceptions department.

Given that he's injury prone, this merely adds fuel. Yes, he's great when healthy, but is he able to sustain it for a full season? Vick is carrying more risk and not having a capable backup really eats into his effectiveness to the team.

[Al B. Sure!]

They can trade Kolb and if anything happens to Vick, they can do what they've always done and just sign Jeff Garcia who's basically plug and play in that offense.

Even early last season when Vick went down and Kolb looked bad, Jeff Garcia was talked about heavily and his third stint with the Eagles seemed inevitable. Kolb showed up the next week, though, so that died down.

Here... Oct. 2010:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/03/x-rays-negative-on-vick-but-pain-persists/

If he does miss games, a two-time former Eagles quarterback could be coming back. Jeff Garcia’s agent, Doug Henrickson, told me that Garcia is interested in returning to the NFL, and specifically interested in returning to the Eagles

The Eagles have the unique luxury of a 3rd string backup QB that they don't even have to keep on their roster!

[Al B. Sure!]

And let's not act like Kolb is injury-free

What was Game 1? His 3rd career start? And he went down with a concussion? For all we know, Kolb is an injury time-bomb. He's played in like 6 games.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben, we understand you hate the guy, but the die is cast.

The Eagles gambled on a high upside in Vick, and it paid off when... oh yeah, when Kolb got injured and Vick came in and played lights out. Now they are committed.

Another quick point: Vick will make roughly twice as much as Kolb this year, and Kolb is iirc about 4 years younger. So Kolb will bring more value in trade.

[SlowwHand]

True. The Eagles are stuck because maybe the Raiders, if anyone, would have anything to do with Vick, even given his one proven year as an NFL QB. Now they hung the Franchise tag on him.
Oh, yeah. They're definitely painted themselves into a corner.

[Ben Kenobi]

Another quick point: Vick will make roughly twice as much as Kolb this year, and Kolb is iirc about 4 years younger. So Kolb will bring more value in trade.

One, you don't franchise Vick if you intend to let him go. Two, the player with higher value will net you more in a trade. By your logic you'd get more for Sorgi than Manning.

[Ben Kenobi]

What was Game 1? His 3rd career start? And he went down with a concussion? For all we know, Kolb is an injury time-bomb. He's played in like 6 games.

And you'd willingly flush your investment? Look, his value is low at this point. Selling him now will not let you recoup what you've spent on his development. Vick, is a great trade right now. You took a zero risk gamble on a player that panned out bigtime.

So now, what you do is cash out on Vick, ship his ass elsewhere and keep your profits.

And I'm arguing from the POV of someone who sees Vick as having value.

[SlowwHand]

Yeah well, in theory, an AMC Gremlin has some kind of value. I guess you could say Vick is an AMC Gremlin.
You're kinder than I though.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hey, I'm trying to understand the other side, and give them a fair shake.

[SlowwHand]

NO FAIR SHAKES!

[Al B. Sure!]

Clearly neither Sloww nor Ben watched a single Eagles game last year with Mike Vick starting.

I just showed that, per game, Vick was the best QB in the NFL last year.

[Al B. Sure!]

By your logic you'd get more for Sorgi than Manning.

This shows how much you follow the NFL. Your statement only makes sense if by Manning you mean Eli Manning. Jim Sorgi is on the Giants.