NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - 2010 Offseason

[Imran Siddiqui]

Football outsiders, hah.

My dog made better picks in the playoffs then they did.

I'll take Football Outsiders an infinite amount of times over you. They base their decisions on an attempt to find meaningful facts, not your attempts at bull**** covering over worse bull****.

[-Jrabbit]

Brees is a strong candidate, sure. He's put himself in the conversation, absolutely.

But Ben, you've got to give up this Testaverde love.

Vinnie Green Seed couldn't carry Brees' jock - nor anyone else on that list. Not to mention -- Jim Kelly, Aikman, McNabb, Warner... Longevity does not equal greatness. I could easily find ANOTHER 20 (50?) guys I would list before Testaverde.

[Ben Kenobi]

TD/INT is a meaningless stat?

Look, these are not bad QBs. I see your argument for Ken Anderson as a HOF QB, no question there. All I am arguing is that Brees is the better QB, when using the exact same standards to compare the two.

Heck I consider him better then McNabb, who I've already argued is a HOF QB. Ok? So let's get that cleared up.

[Ben Kenobi]

Brees is a strong candidate, sure. He's put himself in the conversation, absolutely.

Then my work is done. This is all I'm arguing for.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Brees is not the better QB. He may be in 5 years, but not now.

Testaverde is no where near the conversation.

[Ben Kenobi]

WRT to PR, my contention is that Brees will have the more successful career when all is said and done. I may be wrong. I am not saying that PR is a bad QB, or that he doesn't have potential to be one of the greats. Far from it. I am not a PR hater, I think he would have had success wherever he went, Chargers or no. The only reason I think they should have let PR go over Brees, (and I said this back when they did let him go in 2005), is because I watched Brees. I saw that he was getting better, notwithstanding the setback. I was looking forward to seeing what he could accomplish, once the Chargers built an effective team behind the combination of LT, Brees and Gates. I had been waiting for 2 years after the playoff loss, to 2006.

[Ben Kenobi]

Brees is not the better QB. He may be in 5 years, but not now.

His TD/INT and QB rating is superior, even era adjusted.

I'll take Football Outsiders an infinite amount of times over you. They base their decisions on an attempt to find meaningful facts, not your attempts at bull**** covering over worse bull****.

Maybe 2 years ago. Not now.

Baltimore Ravens as SB champions? Eagles NFC champions?

They have serious, serious problems with their model right now. Whether they manage to sort them out remains to be seen.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you are expecting a crystal ball? They evaluate statistics, not call down the spirits.

[SlowwHand]

Johnny Unitas is the best QB ever.

[-Jrabbit]

It would be interesting to see an alternative universe where Brees didn't get hurt, to see what would have happened. My guess is that San Diego does the same thing.

They spent a high first-rounder on Rivers, and between salary cap and athlete egos, there was no way they could keep both. Was it the wrong move? Not in and of itself. Drafting Rivers was the origin of the problem. But that was the Eli-Rivers-Big Ben class, and they couldn't resist.

[Ben Kenobi]

So you are expecting a crystal ball? They evaluate statistics, not call down the spirits.

I do expect them to do better at picking winners then my dog. My dog is very smart, but his system leaves much to be desired.

The real killer is on the defensive end, you did better picking against them rather then with them.

[Ben Kenobi]

It would be interesting to see an alternative universe where Brees didn't get hurt, to see what would have happened. My guess is that San Diego does the same thing.

They spent a high first-rounder on Rivers, and between salary cap and athlete egos, there was no way they could keep both. Was it the wrong move? Not in and of itself. Drafting Rivers was the origin of the problem. But that was the Eli-Rivers-Big Ben class, and they couldn't resist.

The move was made out of lack of faith, so it's interesting to see that their lack of faith has cost them dearly. Same thing happened with Schotty.

[Tuberski]

The difference is stark in 2006. Rivers was a rookie starter, and was not nearly the QB he is now. Even 4 years later, Brees is still the better current QB, in his prime. The Chargers lost 4 years of development time. Perhaps Rivers in his career will be better then Brees, but it is too early to tell. Signs are pointing to no.

Rivers was not a rookie starter, ever. He was in his third season. Do you even know what a rookie is?

ACK!

[Ben Kenobi]

Uh, rookie starter = first season starting.

rookie QB = QB in his first season.

Some QBs are both rookie starters and rookie QBs. Rivers was the former and not the latter in 2006.

2006 was the first season that Rivers started so he was a rookie starter.

[Zopperoni]

You call Rivers a rookie QB here:

Well, consider this. They went 14-2 in 2006, with a rookie QB. Imagine that team with another 5 million dollars that they weren't going to pay Philip Rivers.

But that's not the point. There was a time that some people considered Brees to be a flash in the pan, and so did the Chargers. If they had confidence in Brees, they wouldn't have drafted Manning.

Plus, I don't understand your "fantasy" line-up there. Is it based on the Chargers never drafting Manning/trading for Rivers?

Rivers has enviable numbers. In the last two years, he's completed 65+% of his passes w/ 4,000+ yds and 28+ TDs. Not even Brady put up such numbers in his Super Bowl years.

But the balance that they had in 2006 is gone. There is no way they could have become better. Brees and the Saints performed well this year because they had a rushing attack that had to be respected.
Rivers has done very well to carry the team while LT has been in decline, both rushing and receiving. Heck, he also hasn't even completed a pass in the last two seasons

For you to think that LT and Brees would peak at the same time because they're the same age is ridiculous. Brees is starting to peak. LT has no more upside.