NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - 2010 Offseason

[-Jrabbit]

The Chargers should never have let him go. Always have loved Brees.

This is simply revisionist history. You can argue that the Chargers should never have drafted Rivers, but at that time, Brees was still fighting Flutie for the starting spot, and the team was looking to move away from altitude-challenged QBs.

San Diego franchised Brees in '05, paying him $8MM and making him a free agent in '06. In the last '05 game, Brees had a major injury - torn labrum in his throwing shoulder. So when they let him go as a free agent, the team already had Rivers, and it made no sense to keep a short, damaged, expensive guy at QB2. So they offered him an incentive-based contract with a base salary of "only" $2MM. And he walked.

As for coaching, wish Marty were back, Bolts would have a ring already.

This is pure fantasy.

"Woulda coulda shoulda" -- Marty had his chances. Sure, he got screwed as a scapegoat by Smith/Spanos -- BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE HE KEPT LOSING IN THE PLAYOFFS!

[Ben Kenobi]

This is simply revisionist history. You can argue that the Chargers should never have drafted Rivers, but at that time, Brees was still fighting Flutie for the starting spot, and the team was looking to move away from altitude-challenged QBs.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The Saints have been paid off for their faith with a ring.

San Diego franchised Brees in '05, paying him $8MM and making him a free agent in '06. In the last '05 game, Brees had a major injury - torn labrum in his throwing shoulder.

In a meaningless game.

So when they let him go as a free agent, the team already had Rivers, and it made no sense to keep a short, damaged, expensive guy at QB2. So they offered him an incentive-based contract with a base salary of "only" $2MM. And he walked.

I would have walked too. One of the best QBs in the history of the game, and he's been proven to be right.

"Woulda coulda shoulda" -- Marty had his chances. Sure, he got screwed as a scapegoat by Smith/Spanos -- BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE HE KEPT LOSING IN THE PLAYOFFS!

Put it this way, the Chargers are in the exact same spot they were in 06. Except their core is now 4 years older. I am not convinced Norv has done anything Marty could not have done in the interim.

[Imran Siddiqui]

One of the best QBs in the history of the game

[Ming]

Ben lives in his own little fantasy world

And Ben, you make it sound like that if Brees had only been resigned (coming off a major injury) to a super big contract, that the Bolts would have one or more Super Bowls by now. Rivers is not a crappy QB. He's one of the better ones. And while I will agree that Brees is a great QB, I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint him as one of best all time. Brees has been the most successful under Payton's system. He is surrounded by very talented players, and the coaching staff is ten times better than anything in recent Bolts history. While Brees makes it work, it's really a total team effort, from the Front office, coaches and players.

Many teams would kill to have Rivers as a QB.

[Ben Kenobi]

QBs with a superbowl and more yardage, or QBs with over 40k passing yards:

Brees is now 18th and he's only 30. He's on pace now for 65k passing yards, behind Farve, and likely Peyton Manning, which would be good for 3rd all-time, assuming he plays another 10 years. If he plays another 8 at 3.5k/year, he'll be just behind Marino. I can see him being 4th all-time, behind Manning, Farve, Marino and ahead of Elway and Moon.

1. Brett Favre (40) 69,329 1991-2009 4TM
2. Dan Marino+ 61,361 1983-1999 mia
3. John Elway+ 51,475 1983-1998 den
4. Peyton Manning (33) 50,128 1998-2009 clt
5. Warren Moon+ 49,325 1984-2000 4TM
6. Fran Tarkenton+ 47,003 1961-1978 2TM
7. Vinny Testaverde 46,233 1987-2007 7TM
8. Drew Bledsoe 44,611 1993-2006 3TM
9. Dan Fouts+ 43,040 1973-1987 sdg
10. Joe Montana+ 40,551 1979-1994 2TM
11. Johnny Unitas+ 40,239 1956-1973 2TM
12. Steve Young+ 33,124 1985-1999 2TM
13. Y.A. Tittle+ 33,070 1948-1964 3TM
14. Troy Aikman+ 32,942 1989-2000 dal
15. Kurt Warner (38) 32,344 1998-2009 3TM
16. Sonny Jurgensen+ 32,224 1957-1974 2TM
17. Tom Brady (32) 30,844 2000-2009 nwe
18. Drew Brees (30) 30,646 2001-2009 2TM

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you would put him above Montana?

And for that matter, Testaverde over Fouts, Aikman, and Tittle?

[Ben Kenobi]

And Ben, you make it sound like that if Brees had only been resigned (coming off a major injury) to a super big contract, that the Bolts would have one or more Super Bowls by now.

Well, consider this. They went 14-2 in 2006, with a rookie QB. Imagine that team with another 5 million dollars that they weren't going to pay Philip Rivers.

QB: Drew Brees
RB: LaDanian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Keenan McCardell
WR: Eric Parker
WR: Vincent Jackson

TE: Antonio Gates
TE: Brandon Manuelmalema

LT: Marcus McNeil
LG: Kris Deilman
C: Nick Hardwick
RG: Mike Goff
RT: Shane Olivea

Defense:

LDE: Luis Castillo
LDE: Jacques Cesiare
NT: Jamal Williams
RDE: Igor Olishansky

LOLB: Shawne Merriman
ROLB: Shaun Phillips
LILB: Randell Godfrey
RILB: Donnie Edwards

LCB: Quentin Jammer
RCB: Charles Woodson
SS: Terrence Kiel
FS: Marlon McCree

K: Nate Kaeding
P: Mike Scifres

Edit, man I forgot how bad their safeties were. They needed bigtime help in the secondary.

[Ben Kenobi]

And for that matter, Testaverde over Fouts, Aikman, and Tittle?

I would put Testaverde over Drew Brees. I'm just counting players I think should still rank ahead of Brees.

Brees is not that far behind Fouts or Testaverde.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And miles behind Montana, Young, Peyton Manning, Elway, Marino, Favre, Unitas, Jurgensen...

Bit rich to call someone:

One of the best QBs in the history of the game

When you think they are behind Vinnie Testaverde.

[Ming]

First... it would have been a crap shoot that Brees was going to return healthy. Second, that money they "saved" on Rivers, would have had to gone to Brees so there wasn't that ton of extra money you seem to be pointing to.

And last... the coaching staff and front office would still be the same. Brees is only a single player, not the entire team. So I don't buy into your Super Bowl crap. The team couldn't win playoff games, and you kind of need to do that to win the Super Bowl.

While you think Brees is god's gift to man, Rivers isn't bad. The difference between Rivers and Brees does not make for "automatic" Super Bowls in San Diego.

And all your all time arguments are based on him playing a long career... a crap shoot at best for a player who has already had major surgery. Let's talk about how great all time he is after he has survived another 5 years or so.

[Ben Kenobi]

First... it would have been a crap shoot that Brees was going to return healthy.

True. The Saints offered him 10 million a year, guaranteed. I'd bet that Brees would have returned if he had been given a contract with 8 million guaranteed and 2 million in incentives with the Chargers, instead of the 2 million with 8 million in incentives that he received.

Second, that money they "saved" on Rivers, would have had to gone to Brees so there wasn't that ton of extra money you seem to be pointing to.

Rivers at the time was under contract for 6 years at 42 million. So a little more than 8 million dollars a year. Keeping Brees and trading Rivers would have netted them 8 million dollars, plus they would have retained the use of their franchise tag. I'll have to look up who they chose to tag in 2006.

And last... the coaching staff and front office would still be the same. Brees is only a single player, not the entire team. So I don't buy into your Super Bowl crap. The team couldn't win playoff games, and you kind of need to do that to win the Super Bowl.

In 2006, they had only been in one playoff game, their first in a decade. Too small a sample to say that they 'couldn't win playoff games'.

While you think Brees is god's gift to man, Rivers isn't bad. The difference between Rivers and Brees does not make for "automatic" Super Bowls in San Diego.

The difference is stark in 2006. Rivers was a rookie starter, and was not nearly the QB he is now. Even 4 years later, Brees is still the better current QB, in his prime. The Chargers lost 4 years of development time. Perhaps Rivers in his career will be better then Brees, but it is too early to tell. Signs are pointing to no.

And all your all time arguments are based on him playing a long career... a crap shoot at best for a player who has already had major surgery. Let's talk about how great all time he is after he has survived another 5 years or so.

Fair enough. I am ranking him over players like McNabb, so he is a very good quarterback already, regardless of injuries or whatever the future may bring.

[Ben Kenobi]

When you think they are behind Vinnie Testaverde.

Both are in the list of the top 20 QBs of all time. Easily in the top percentile of NFL QBs.

[Lord Avalon]

Ben conveniently glosses over the Chargers drafting of Ryan Leaf and slips in Charles Woodson.

[Ben Kenobi]

Woodson was a free agent in 2006.

[Lord Avalon]

Yeah, and Green Bay was the only team that wanted him.