NHL Offseason Thread -- Vancouver Edition (NHL Offseason / NHL Golf Tourney)

[Ben Kenobi]

He was already gone, he was a UFA.

There was serious consideration at resigning him again at 4 million for 3 or 4 years.

Naslund is irrelevant at this point. Vancouver had tons of cap space and they are screwing it up by signing the wrong players to slightly overpriced contracts and offering Sundin a brutally overpriced contract.

I don't like the Sundin contract. I hope he turns it down. The Canucks don't need a solid centre, they need someone on the right wing. This is the biggest problem with the Demitra signing is that they will have an overload of Centres, in Kesler, Demitra, Henrik and Sundin if they get him, and absolutely nobody on the right wing.

You lost more point-makers than you've received in return so far,

Demitra > Naslund. Addition by subtraction. Demitra costs less the Naslund and is younger then Naslund.

Bernier > Morrison. Bernier had 35 points last year, is young, is coming up on his 3rd year at the NHL level and is a former first round pick for San Jose. Morrison is none of these.

When you mention a couple 30 point guys -- most of which are known as pests than scorers -- as a counterpoint to the argument that you guys got worse, you lose.

We didn't have that line this time last year. We'd have made the playoffs and destroyed Calgary had our defense been healthy.

Pettinger also? Mister -11, 13 points all season Pettinger makes you a better team?

Pettinger > Cooke. He was -11 with Washington, so nice try there.

I also mentioned Raymond and Shannon, which I guess mean nothing to you since they don't play on Calgary, and you've never heard of them before.

[Asher]

Pettinger > Cooke. He was -11 with Washington, so nice try there.

Washington? You mean, the team that made the playoffs vs Vancouver which missed?

I also mentioned Raymond and Shannon, which I guess mean nothing to you since they don't play on Calgary, and you've never heard of them before.

I know exactly who they are -- not only did we play Vancouver 8 times last year I pay attention to the whole of the NHL thanks to NHL Centre Ice, fantasy leagues, and blogs.

For instance, this is why I knew Gaborik wasn't injured "most of last season" like you. It's also why I knew the Flames jersey wasn't orange. It's also why I know Bernier is not an upgrade on Morrison, at least not this year. Bernier was at one point a touted prospect in San Jose, but they gave him up to Buffalo which didn't like what they saw either. Bernier has well known attitude problems and personality conflicts everywhere he goes. Bernier last season scored at a 0.42 point per game pace, Morrison scored at a 0.64 point per game pace. You're going to have a hard time arguing 0.42 points per game is an upgrade over 0.64.

I'd appreciate if you didn't even try this approach of "you don't know anything outside of Calgary". It is clear to me that you don't even know anything about Vancouver itself. I remember your discussion about how you thought Linden was a better player than Iginla, for instance...

[Ben Kenobi]

1. PYATT/RAYMOND DEMITRA WELLWOOD
2. SEDIN SEDIN BERNIER
3. BURROWS KESLER SHANNON
4. PETTINGER JOHNSON HANSEN

5. Raymond, Rypian, Richie.

Here's how the lines are looking right now.

1. Sedin/Sedin/Bernier looks set.
2. Burrows/Kesler/Shannon looks like it would work.
3. Pettinger/Johnson/Hansen same.

Not too shabby. They have 1 more LW they can trade (Pyatt or Raymond), and try to get 1 solid top line winger. If they get Sundin, these will be the lines:

1. DEMITRA/ SUNDIN / WELLWOOD
2. SEDIN / SEDIN / BERNIER
3. BURROWS / KESLER /SHANNON(RAYMOND)
4. PETTINGER/ JOHNSON/HANSON(RAYMOND)

[Ben Kenobi]

I'd appreciate if you didn't even try this approach of "you don't know anything outside of Calgary". It is clear to me that you don't even know anything about Vancouver itself. I remember your discussion about how you thought Linden was a better player than Iginla, for instance...

He was at his peak a better player then Iginla at his peak.

Washington? You mean, the team that made the playoffs vs Vancouver which missed?

Because of their otherworldly defense?

I know exactly who they are -- not only did we play Vancouver 8 times last year I pay attention to the whole of the NHL thanks to NHL Centre Ice, fantasy leagues, and blogs.

So why did you comment that my only argument was that the Kes-Burrows line was the only indication the Canucks would be better? Shannon and Raymond both stepped up last season, and proved they could do it on the bigs. They'll be back again this year.

It's also why I know Bernier is not an upgrade on Morrison, at least not this year.

I would say that is debatable. Bernier is exactly what the Canucks need, a first round right winger who is young and has already proven he can make it in the bigs.

Bernier was at one point a touted prospect in San Jose, but they gave him up to Buffalo which didn't like what they saw either. Bernier has well known attitude problems and personality conflicts everywhere he goes. Bernier last season scored at a 0.42 point per game pace, Morrison scored at a 0.64 point per game pace. You're going to have a hard time arguing 0.42 points per game is an upgrade over 0.64.

The Canucks picked up two players who are going into their 4th year, who were solid prospects, but their teams have given up on them Wellwood and Bernier. I like the fact that they have been productive up here, and that they are at the point of their career where they can break out and play. Wellwood is good enough to be the first line RW for the Canucks, Bernier, the second line, which is something the Canucks desperately needed.

I'd appreciate if you didn't even try this approach of "you don't know anything outside of Calgary".

I'm curious why you ignored my mention of Shannon and Raymond who put some serious time in the bigs last season. Could it be, gasp, you agree with my analysis?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


He was at his peak a better player then Iginla at his peak.

We've already discussed this -- there's no way that argument can be made.

So why did you comment that my only argument was that the Kes-Burrows line was the only indication the Canucks would be better?

I was quite obviously making the point that your team is starved for offense when you start discussing players like Pettinger, with only a handful of points, to counter a point that your team isn't doing enough offensively....

I would say that is debatable. Bernier is exactly what the Canucks need, a first round right winger who is young and has already proven he can make it in the bigs.

You are aware the Sharks had sent him back down to the minors recently? He's not a "proven" NHL player yet, not until he skates a full season. The round they were drafted in means nothing. David Hale was a 1st round pick, Zetterberg was 7th.

I'm curious why you ignored my mention of Shannon and Raymond who put some serious time in the bigs last season. Could it be, gasp, you agree with my analysis?

I will agree that they should be slightly better, I do not agree that'll make all the difference on the Canucks given the losses of Morrison and Naslund.

[Kontiki]

The chance of Sundin signing in Vancouver is pretty close to zero, thankfully. If he comes back at all, it will be with a team that has a legitimate shot at the Cup, or at least a solid playoff team. Montreal would seem to be the front runner, though I wouldn't totally rule out a return to Toronto (for familiarity/sentimentality, not winning, obviously).

[Ben Kenobi]

We've already discussed this -- there's no way that argument can be made.

11th pick < 2nd pick.

I was quite obviously making the point that your team is starved for offense when you start discussing players like Pettinger, with only a handful of points, to counter a point that your team isn't doing enough offensively....

They have a line with Burrows/Kes and Pettinger which pretty much shuts down the opposing team's first line. That's something we didn't have at the start of the season last year, which is why I mentioned that line. Obviously the line struck a chord with you because they pasted Calgary all year.

You are aware the Sharks had sent him back down to the minors recently? He's not a "proven" NHL player yet, not until he skates a full season. The round they were drafted in means nothing. David Hale was a 1st round pick, Zetterberg was 7th.

It means the talent is there. First rounders the question is whether they can apply that talent to the NHL. The Canucks traded away Cam Neely after 3 years of disappointment, and look at how he turned out.

I will agree that they should be slightly better, I do not agree that'll make all the difference on the Canucks given the losses of Morrison and Naslund.

Even though I've shown that the replacements for Naslund and Morrison actually had more points then they had last year, and they happen to be on the upside of their career?

I feel much more confident that you acknowledge they will do better.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
11th pick < 2nd pick.

The sad part is I think you're serious.

Daigle > Linden!

They have a line with Burrows/Kes and Pettinger which pretty much shuts down the opposing team's first line. That's something we didn't have at the start of the season last year, which is why I mentioned that line. Obviously the line struck a chord with you because they pasted Calgary all year.

They were particularly effective in the 7-1 loss.

[Ben Kenobi]

1988 > 1995.

There are 6 1000 point men in that draft. 0 in 1995.

If 1988 > 1995 AND

2 > 11 THEN

Linden > Iginla.

[Asher]

If I could shoot you through the internet, I would.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm glad I have such good friends.

[Ninot]

So Tampa hires Barry Melrose, and then fires Jay Feaster. What an ass backwards organization. Up there with the Leafs.

[Asher]

I think Feaster refused to be their puppet. Some of their recent moves are just bizarre.

[Asher]

The new Lecavalier deal...

http://www.faceoff-factor.com/transactions/1833/lecavalier-becomes-a-lightning-for-life-take-two

As previously reported, Tampa Bay Lightning superstar center Vincent Lecavalier was inked to a nine-year, $77 million extension a few weeks ago. Apparently, that deal never came to fruition despite it seeming to be a, proverbial, done deal.

Instead, the Lightning, who haven’t been shy about spending money on forwards, have locked up Lecavalier to a reported 11-year, $85 million deal (cap hit: $7,727,273).

The mammoth deal is the biggest contract ever given to a Québécois in the history of the NHL according to RDS.

The contract, according to reports, winds all the way down to $1 million in the final year of the deal, which will be in 2020. The deal, subject to league approval, is believed to be structured in this fashion:

Years 1-7: $10 million per year
Year 8: $8 million
Year 9: $4.5 million
Year 10: $1.5 million
Year 11: $1 million

Editorial: Just correcting a previous point, after re-evaluation the league’s “100-percent rule” this contract looks to check out just fine. For the contract to be void, the contract would have to drop $5 million at any one point (50% of years 1 and 2). It drops only $3.5 million and $3 million in years 8 to 9 and 9 to 10, respectively. Barring any further confusion on my part, this seems to be perfectly legal.

Lecavalier, 28, scored 40 goals and 92 points last season as he completed the third year of a four-year, $27.5 million contract. Lecavalier will count against the salary cap to the tune of $6,875,000 during the 08-09 season before the extension kicks it.

Lecavalier was selected first overall in 1998 and holds franchise records for games played (710), goals (273) and points (602).

A press conference is expected to be held Tuesday to announce the news.

[Asher]

"Wake Me Up When Burke and Lowe Are Friends", to the tune of "Wake Me Up When September Ends":