AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 07/08: VII Da da da, da da daa, da da da, da daa da daa

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Depends on the hit from behind I suppose... I thought goalies were defended more than that, but they're not NFL QBs after all.

Throwing a puck at someone's face certainly deserves unsportsmanlike (I assume that includes misconduct?)

No, just 2 mins.

And yes, goalies are protected. He was in the crease. It should've been a penalty, at the very least. If Kipper hadn't done that, Phaneuf was about to knock the guy around anyway.

[Asher]

Alex Tanguay just got an empty netter...with 5+ minutes left in play. Don't see that too often.

[Asher]

Flames win 7-3, take 1st in the NW with a game in hand on Minnesota...

Vancouver, meanwhile, can't seem to solve Dan "Worst Goalie in the World" Cloutier.

[snoopy369]

Throwing a puck in someone's face is only 2 minutes? I can't think of another sport where that would be the case.

Baseball: Ejection from game and probable multiple game suspension
Football: 15 yard penalty and later fine at minimum (depends on flagrance)
Basketball: Flagrant (2) foul, probable ejection

(Well, okay, those are the only sports I know)

Still, if I were a fan of the other team I'd have been pretty pissed he only got 2 minutes... at least 5 I'd think.

[Asher]

Are you kidding? It's not like he whipped it at the guy.

It's a far bigger deal in hockey to run the star goaltender from behind hard enough to knock the mask straight off -- in the crease. Especially when the player is a nobody on a bottom feeding team.

If Kipper hadn't thrown the puck at him, a defenseman would've pounded his face in anyway. If the refs aren't going to call it -- as they didn't here -- the message needs to be sent another way.

[Ben Kenobi]

Vancouver, meanwhile, can't seem to solve Dan "Worst Goalie in the World" Cloutier.

Still hating on the Canucks?

You'd think they were a threat or something.

Canucks won. Moving up to 7th and 2 points out of first.

[Asher]

They barely won against the worst team in the league. There's so not worthy of a "".

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Throwing a puck in someone's face is only 2 minutes? I can't think of another sport where that would be the case.

Baseball: Ejection from game and probable multiple game suspension
Football: 15 yard penalty and later fine at minimum (depends on flagrance)
Basketball: Flagrant (2) foul, probable ejection

(Well, okay, those are the only sports I know)

Still, if I were a fan of the other team I'd have been pretty pissed he only got 2 minutes... at least 5 I'd think.

You had to see it-- He had it in his catching glove and just kinda flipped it up in the air where it did strike the face. It caused no injury-- heck I doubt it even hurt at all-- So 2 min on Kipper was the right call

[snoopy369]

Well, Asher described it rather differently Still, I suspect all three of those penalties in the other sports would be accurate if there was any intention at all in the throw - even football, which has plenty of legal and illegal hitting that is not significantly penalized, has a pretty stark line where unacceptable conduct is on the other side - and throwing the ball at someone's head is definitely on the other side.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369

Actually, that's not necessarily true. The OT Loss point might affect this unfortunately, i'm not sure exactly how it factors in, but if you have teams (points here are made up, i'm too lazy to look them up):

7. Vancouver 31-29-8 (70pts/68gms; 1.03/gm)
8. Nashivlle 30-29-9 (69pts/68gms; 1.01/gm)
9. Colorado 30-30-8 (68pts/68gms; 1/gm)
10. Chicago 28-31-9 (65pts/68gms)

Chicago has 4 points to make up in the above list; if Vancouver and Nashville play each other, they'll end up (combined) with (2*.9)+(3*.1) or 2.1 points from that game, on average (above has about 10% of games going to OT). That's clearly slightly bad for Chicago; but it's not terribly bad for a few reasons:
1. Maximum of 3 points can be earned - Vancouver and Nashville both win more games than they lose, so they could easily score 4 points from playing games separately against other foes.
2. Western Conference teams - Isn't it better for them to be playing Western Conference teams than both to be playing teams from the East, where they will tend to win more?
3. War of attrition - This makes it less likely that two separate teams will go on hot streaks, if they play each other. One will cool the other off. With any luck, the one will be Chicago

All in all, i'm not sure if it helps or hurts us, but i doubt it does either to a significant degree. I'm happy to see the interesting hockey be played, and if the Hawks fail to make the playoffs, I'm not going to be too upset. They most certainly will succeed in the very near future, and I have no problem waiting one more year for this incredibly talented team to shine. It's not like the Bulls started winning championships in 1986 after all...

Using the actual numbers, Chicago is now 7 points out of a playoff spot (Colorado in 8th) and need to also hurdle Nashville that is 5 points up on them. If nashville and Colorado are playing a two game set, Chicago KNOWS that even if they win two games the BEST they can gain is two points. The key again is needing to pass two teams

Chicago has a very very tough road ahead. Make the simple assumption that Colorado plays .500 hockey from here on out ( they will likely be better than that but just for illustration) That would put Colorado at 92 points,

Chicago has 73 points and 13 games to go. To EXCEED 92 points they would need a record of 10-3-0 down the stretch. Thats a very tough road-- So Chicago probably needs someone to play sub-.500 hockey down the stretch-- or worse they pretty much need TWO teams from among Calgary (would get 95 at PPG pace),Vancouver (93), Colorado, Minny (93), Nashville(90) to average less than a point a game down the stretch

Lets do it another way -- Assume Chicago goes 8-4-1 in their last 13-- thats a darn fine record-- But it totals up to 90 points on the season for them

To get to 90 the other teams need

Nash 6-6-0
Colorado 5-7-0
Vancouver 5-8-0
Minny 4-7-1
Calgary 4-9-0

So realistically Chicago needs to be very very good and hope that TWO pretty good teams are pretty mediocre. Oh ya and Phoenix is in EXACTLY the same position.

I like Chicago's youth. They have impressed me at times this year and I think the team might be a real force as early as next season. This season?? They need an amazing run or TWO collapses (actually they need a little bit of both)--

[Asher]

That's a lot of sweat -- goaltenders sweat 3L per hour??

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080205.wsptgator4ptr/BNStory/Science/home

The science of sweat

JAMES MIRTLE

Globe and Mail Update

February 5, 2008 at 1:01 AM EDT

Professor Lawrence Spriet admits it. He's the one behind those Gatorade ads that ran every commercial break during the last world junior hockey tournament.

But far from a sports-drink marketing guru, the role of the University of Guelph researcher the past three years has been to examine the science of sweat. His latest study, based on work with the Canadian junior team, discovered that elite hockey players lose more fluid during practices than most other athletes.

Spriet said one-third of hockey players tested did not adequately replace lost fluid during practice and, as a result, lost more than 1 per cent of their body mass. At the extreme end of the scale, Spriet said, players lost as much as 2 per cent of their weight in two hours of activity.

"Typically what you find is that, when they're not drinking, they don't feel as well," he said. "Their heart rates are higher and their core temperatures are higher. So, physiologically, their body is struggling to handle the situation."

Spriet has worked with the Canadian juniors since 2005, tested the Toronto Raptors during their NBA training camp, helped the NHL's New York Rangers improve hydration techniques and, most recently, worked with the Guelph Storm of the Ontario Hockey League during games.

The work by Spriet and PhD student Matt Palmer with the Canadian world juniors was recently accepted into the journal Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism. The testing essentially involved weighing players and measuring their water bottles before and after practice, and using a complex formula to determine fluid and salt loss because of sweat.

According to the study, the average player at the Canadian world junior camp sweated about 1.8 litres an hour and replaced about one litre of that with water or sports drinks. Goaltenders were the heaviest sweaters, averaging nearly three litres an hour, which was almost double the amount forwards and defencemen lose.

Previous studies have found sweat rates of 1.6 litres an hour for soccer players, 1.8 for runners and 2.1 for football players, although Spriet noted that body size was not taken into account, making direct comparisons difficult.

Elite hockey players are heavy sweaters in general, Spriet said, because of three factors: a high-intensity workout, considerable protective equipment and warm arenas (between 14 and 17.7 during games).

Spriet, who since 2005 has been the advisory board chairman with Canada's Gatorade Sports Science Institute, also said hockey players have a culture that makes them more likely to use water instead of sports drinks to hydrate on the bench during practices and games.

The study's conclusion states "elite ice hockey players have very high sweat rates and despite numerous opportunities to drink, replace only 60 per cent of the sweat losses."

The study also suggests players would benefit from individually tailored hydration profiles, given the wide variation among athletes when it comes to sweating during workouts.

"Basically, the bottom line as a scientist is that if you work with humans, you see a lot of variability," Spriet said. "If you work with genetically bred mice or rats, you see very little variability. I prefer to work with humans because it's more fun, but you know, it's amazing how variable things can be between people."

Earlier studies of activities such as basketball, cycling and soccer have shown that losing more than 2 per cent of one's body mass affects "absolute power production," and Spriet's work with the Storm this season is designed to measure how a hockey player's performance is affected by being in a state of "hypohydration" or dehydration.

He expects the results will surprise some people.

"I always say to the hockey players, 'You would never go on the ice with skates that aren't sharpened properly or your stick the way you like it, so why would you go on the ice in a dehydrated situation?' It's just one more thing in their arsenal."

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Well, Asher described it rather differently Still, I suspect all three of those penalties in the other sports would be accurate if there was any intention at all in the throw - even football, which has plenty of legal and illegal hitting that is not significantly penalized, has a pretty stark line where unacceptable conduct is on the other side - and throwing the ball at someone's head is definitely on the other side.

IT was a flip with his catching glove. It WAS intended to be a peeve-off, in your face type of thing but with respect to injury would have been no different if Kipper had given the guy a face-wash. There was ZERO potential for injury from what Kipper did and the penalty was totally in line with what happened.

If kipper had winged it at the guy I have no doubt he would have faced a stiffer penalty-- BUt flipping the puck at him had no more real violence than if he had flipped him the finger-- Kipper was pi$$ed off cause he was getting run.

[Flubber]

OH and Calgary last night


I attended the game and the Dome was rocking early with the Tanguay goal. It was actually quite a fun night

The Flames had a number of notable events

-Iggy scored to surpass Fleury
-Huselieus and Lombardi ended goalless droughts
-Eric Godard got an assist !!!

The Flames ended with a very convincing win but frankly they were not that dominant . The Blues goaltending SUCKED. The Flames were actually out-shot once again in a game where overall they had a clear edge in good scoring chances. Kipper was very good and the whole team enjoyed a rare night with a big lead. It was good to see them win big

But this was a reeling Blues team and a win the Flames really needed-- AS they head on the road they will face a few squads that have been playing well of late and who are still holding playoff dreams. The FLames could be putting an end to a few of those dreams

[Flubber]

Oh and do you know there are Toronto fans that still think their squad will make the playoffs-- Apparently it all rests on the fact that they have 2 games head to head with the Flyers now which could bring them to ONLY 4 points back.

My most fervent wish is that the Flyers whip the Leafs tonight-- That might put an end to the Leafs talk

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Flubber
Oh and do you know there are Toronto fans that still think their squad will make the playoffs-- Apparently it all rests on the fact that they have 2 games head to head with the Flyers now which could bring them to ONLY 4 points back.

My most fervent wish is that the Flyers whip the Leafs tonight-- That might put an end to the Leafs talk

No actually, I want the Leafs to finish 8th, and the Habs 1st.