Pro-Life Activist Gunned Down in Michigan

[rah]

Yeah, neither side really has the moral high ground in this regard.
For the record, I'm against all the violence.

[OzzyKP]

Yeah, neither side really has the moral high ground in this regard.
For the record, I'm against all the violence.

See that's all I'm after.

I just really hate double standards, which are plentiful with this issue.

[Ben Kenobi]

My last comment would be, how do we know the man is now in paradise, only God can really know that?

That's a good question.

We can see in many of the writings of the church fathers that the martyrs of the past, St. Peter, and St. Paul were brought up into heaven and were with their father in heaven. Tertullian talks how the martyrdom is like a second baptism in the cleasing of one's sins.

[chequita guevara]

When Tiller was shot there were immediate and vocal condemnations of the violence, sympathy for Tiller and his family,

Tiller was killed for political reasons. That makes his murder an assassination.

This guy was killed because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That makes his murder just another murder. The only political aspect to the murder is the politics you, Ben, and other anti-choice people are sadly attempting to inject.

[chequita guevara]

There has been a great deal of violence against pro-lifers over the years (less murder admittedly), but still far more than what people here are aware of.

Not really. The vast majority of the time, violence against anti-women activists is defensive or a reaction to a deliberate provocation. If you spit in someone's face, expect to get punched in response.

[OzzyKP]

The shooter specifically said he targeted this guy because of his message and his politics. How is that any different?

[OzzyKP]

Not really. The vast majority of the time, violence against anti-women activists is defensive or a reaction to a deliberate provocation. If you spit in someone's face, expect to get punched in response.

And if you peacefully hold up a sign or hand someone a brochure, expect to be pushed down?

[chequita guevara]

The fact that he had killed someone else and was on his way to kill another person kinda make that suspect.

[Ben Kenobi]

This guy was killed because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That makes his murder just another murder. The only political aspect to the murder is the politics you, Ben, and other anti-choice people are sadly attempting to inject.

The killer admitted to the police that he targetted Jim because of his beliefs. That's why he was charged with 1st degree murder instead of manslaughter.

[Ben Kenobi]

The fact that he had killed someone else and was on his way to kill another person kinda make that suspect.

At worst, he would be charged with manslaughter if your example were true. That's not the case. He was charged with 1st degree murder.

[rah]

That's a good question.

We can see in many of the writings of the church fathers that the martyrs of the past, St. Peter, and St. Paul were brought up into heaven and were with their father in heaven. Tertullian talks how the martyrdom is like a second baptism in the cleasing of one's sins.

Somehow I think a comparison with a couple of Saints is a bit of a stretch.
And as some have implied here, if he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, is he really a martyr.

And think about all the scrutiny applied in applications for Saint hood. This is far from a done deal.

[OzzyKP]

The fact that he had killed someone else and was on his way to kill another person kinda make that suspect.

He wasn't on a killing spree killing random people who got in his way. He had targets. I haven't heard his reasons for targeting the other two guys, but this guy was targeted because of his politics.

You are just looking for excuses.

[Robert]

I know things in the USA are different, but having a pro-life opinion is overhere in Holland more or less a position that a lot of people consider to be prehistoric and stupid.
IMHO being pro-life is a very valid position based on humanistic grounds!! (Like I think that pro-choice is also a valid position, despite the fact that I think it's an absolute wrong position).

Personally I'm both pro-life and pro-choice. There's a choice to have sex, there's a choice to use protection, there's a choice to use a morning-after pill. When someone made a choice (s)he should accept the concequences.
That's where I disagree a lot with the Roman Catholic church, which is indeed anti-choice.

And imho this pro-choice and pro-life position is a very valid one.
And people should learn more often that sometimes people you disagree with have a valid position, despite the fact that you don't agree.
Sometimes I wonder if in debates people never can consider the position of someone else.

I must agree with Ozzy that the reactions of the pro-choice movement, at least here on Poly, have been at least very minimal.
When a christian kills someone it makes me feel ashamed and I try to apologize for it asap. Christianity had made many many many mistakes, but today is a day we talk about the mistakes of someone from the pro-choice movement who was not able to see that pro-lifers have a valid position and deserve arguments and not a bullet.

So my question to the pro-choices, do you agree that pro-life is a valid position, based on humanic grounds, especially if there was a chain of choices?

[chequita guevara]

And if you peacefully hold up a sign or hand someone a brochure, expect to be pushed down?

If your side were as peaceful as you're trying to pretend, there'd be no violence. When pro-choice activists do lash out, it's because they've been hit, pinched, spit on, etc. for years. How many anti-women groups have been bombed? How many of your leaders have been murdered? These extreme incidents are the tip of the iceberg of an extremely violent anti-woman movement.

There may be a few of you who are non-violent, respectful, etc., but you're a decided minority. If you associate with violent thugs, expect to be hit from time to time.

[OzzyKP]

If your side were as peaceful as you're trying to pretend, there'd be no violence. When pro-choice activists do lash out, it's because they've been hit, pinched, spit on, etc. for years. How many anti-women groups have been bombed? How many of your leaders have been murdered? These extreme incidents are the tip of the iceberg of an extremely violent anti-woman movement.

There may be a few of you who are non-violent, respectful, etc., but you're a decided minority. If you associate with violent thugs, expect to be hit from time to time.

Wow, you are full of it.