Support For Same Sex Marriage Grows

[Ben Kenobi]

Is this supposed to pass as an argument? We haven't been dropping tens (hundreds?) of billions of dollars into something as wasteful as trotting a dozen people around on the moon?

Thank you KH. I was hoping you'd say that.

For someone who supposedly supports innovation, you sure don't seem to believe in it. Seems to me, you want to make sure everyone is caught up before you take the next step forward.

[KrazyHorse]

On an absolute basis, yes.

That's like saying you'd rather take 5 percent growth over 10 percent growth because you'd make more off the 5 now that you have more then you had previously.

I have NO IDEA what this is even supposed to mean.

The average person in Europe is getting richer at a faster pace, measured as a percent than ANY of his forebears ever did.

[Ben Kenobi]

Despite China's growth it's STILL not close to fully industrialized.

Western style birthrates without western style wealth is a bad combination. Worst of both worlds. Good on us for exporting western-style Marxism for the Chinese people, eh?

[KrazyHorse]

Thank you KH. I was hoping you'd say that.

For someone who supposedly supports innovation, you sure don't seem to believe in it. Seems to me, you want to make sure everyone is caught up before you take the next step forward.

I don't believe in massive government welfare programs for scientists and engineers, no.

Innovations should be made because they PAY OFF. I thought you were a believer in private enterprise.

[KrazyHorse]

Thank you KH. I was hoping you'd say that.

For someone who supposedly supports innovation, you sure don't seem to believe in it. Seems to me, you want to make sure everyone is caught up before you take the next step forward.

No, I want to continue growing at a faster pace than ever before.

I also want other people to undergo supernormal growth rates as they come on board the industrialization/development train.

And both of these things are happening.

[KrazyHorse]

So am I. Why does that mean we should rest on our laurels?

Who's resting? We're INCREASING OUR WEALTH FASTER THAN OUR GRANDPARENTS DID.

[KrazyHorse]

Why is it that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that we have INCREASED the pace of growth of human welfare in the West (including in Western Europe)?

The industrialized world is NOT stagnating. It is continuing to develop and build FASTER THAN EVER BEFORE.

[Ben Kenobi]

The rest of the world is slowly dropping down to reasonable fertility levels.

"Reasonable fertility" is below replacement? And you are accusing me of being racist?

There was a demographic EXPLOSION in much of the undeveloped world when modern medicine and hygiene hit them for the first time.

Just like it did in the West during the industrial period. Population growth is a good thing. Western style liberalism which chokes off their future is a bad thing.

And UNLIKE the developed world their economies were NOT able to deal with it because THEIR economies were set up on the lines of labor-intensive agriculture.

Just as it was for the west prior to industrialisation. You cannot industrialise without significant concentration of people.

And they had only so much land. Which is PART of the reason Africa regressed for much of the 20th century. They're only now starting to grow.

Just the opposite. Africa has the lowest urbanisation, has the lowest population densities, outside of perhaps Egypt, in the world.

I think it's great that they have drastically improved standard of living. I think it's bad that the west has done nothing in 30 years.

And in fact, the growth of the West has been higher for a while than the growth of Japan.

For output, not quite. Output was still increasing in Japan at a faster rate, even as the population has levelled and started declining.

[Q Classic]

Western style birthrates without western style wealth is a bad combination. Worst of both worlds. Good on us for exporting western-style Marxism for the Chinese people, eh?

Well, actually, it's "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics".

[Jon Miller]

I like my intellectual masturbation and will note that since 75% of physicists end up going into industry that it still produces value unlike philosophy/etc intellectual masturbation.

JM

[KrazyHorse]

Ben, I swear that you are literally the MOST intellectually dishonest person I've ever had the misfortune to communicate with. You post ridiculous rants based on false premises, and when called on these falsehoods you refuse to acknowledge them.

[KrazyHorse]

"Reasonable fertility" is below replacement? And you are accusing me of being racist?

No, reasonable fertility rates are those which do NOT put undue strains on the natural resources you need to support them given your current level of development. And these have been exceeded by many countries in the past century.

[Ben Kenobi]

The industrialized world is NOT stagnating. It is continuing to develop and build FASTER THAN EVER BEFORE.

I'm concerned about some worrying trends. So far we've been ok for the last 40 years, but right now there are some very large and very important countries which are declining in population even after taking immigration into account, and more on the way.

Nearly half the nations of the world are currently not replacing themselves.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, reasonable fertility rates are those which do NOT put undue strains on the natural resources you need to support them given your current level of development. And these have been exceeded by many countries in the past century.

Below or above replacement?

Seems to me your sweet spot is about 1.6 to 2, which is below replacement.

[KrazyHorse]

Just like it did in the West during the industrial period. Population growth is a good thing. Western style liberalism which chokes off their future is a bad thing.

Actually, NO.

Because UNLIKE the West, the benefits of modern medicine, hygiene etc. hit these countries MUCH FASTER because they were coming from OUTSIDE. And they hit people whose social and legal organization weren't even up to Europe's standards during industrialization. And through much of the undeveloped world, this DEMOLISHED human welfare, as subsistence agriculture became less productive and there was insufficient political stability to allow outside investment to flow in.