Support For Same Sex Marriage Grows

[KrazyHorse]

I'm concerned about some worrying trends. So far we've been ok for the last 40 years, but right now there are some very large and very important countries which are declining in population even after taking immigration into account, and more on the way.

The ones I can think of are Russia, Japan and China.

Russia's in a basketcase league of its own. China has the one child policy which, given the level of development they currently have, will almost certainly increase human welfare for the next generation, though the method used to achieve it is repugnant. Japan could probably live with a much higher birthrate.

[Ben Kenobi]

The ones I can think of are Russia, Japan and China.

Germany, all of Eastern Europe, save Slovakia are there as well.

Italy, and Sweden are very close.

Russia's in a basketcase league of its own. China has the one child policy which, given the level of development they currently have, will almost certainly increase human welfare for the next generation, though the method used to achieve it is repugnant. Japan could probably live with a much higher birthrate.

For the next 20 years perhaps. After that all bets are off. Standard of living has been declining in Russia.

[KrazyHorse]

Below or above replacement?

Seems to me your sweet spot is about 1.6 to 2, which is below replacement.

Seems to me you haven't asked me what I think ideal fertility rates are. If you had bothered, my answer to you would be that I believe it should be up to parents to determine how many children they have. Not as part of some top-down piece of social engineering.

Thankfully, we no longer HAVE the top-down social engineering group known as the Roman Catholic Church watching over us.

[Jon Miller]

Northern Italy paying women 10k to have a child?

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Because UNLIKE the West, the benefits of modern medicine, hygiene etc. hit these countries MUCH FASTER

Not really, no. Germany went from an agrarian society to an industrial powerhouse in 40 years. Their 'governance' if you can call it that was an emperor which collapsed in the 20th century.

The improvements were from outside too, as Britain industrialised first.

And through much of the undeveloped world, this DEMOLISHED human welfare, as subsistence agriculture became less productive and there was insufficient political stability to allow outside investment to flow in.

The stats don't show it. Standard of living in Africa has improved slowly but steadily. You see similar booms in South America and Asia when they reach around the level of 1820's standard of living.

[KrazyHorse]

I certainly wouldn't vote for that.

I can think of a lot of things I'd rather use my money for than to pay some woman to have babies.

[KrazyHorse]

Not really, no. Germany went from an agrarian society to an industrial powerhouse in 40 years

Are you illiterate?

Or simply stupid?

[Ben Kenobi]

Seems to me you haven't asked me what I think ideal fertility rates are. If you had bothered, my answer to you would be that I believe it should be up to parents to determine how many children they have. Not as part of some top-down piece of social engineering.

I'm curious as to your personal opinion, not whether you would impose it on other people. What would be the ideal fertility rate, in your opinion?

Thankfully, we no longer HAVE the top-down social engineering group known as the Roman Catholic Church watching over us.

Oddly, the Catholic church has no restrictions whatsoever. Your earlier speech would be right at home. Are you sure you don't want to join?

[Riesstiu IV]

Sodomites well burrn an hell! ALLAH ACKBAAAAAAAR!!!

أثبتت الأبحاث العلمية التى قام بها علماء النفس و الأطباء النفسانيين أن التوجه الجنسى "و المقصود به المشاعر و الرغبات الجنسية" لا يمكن أن يكون إختيار.حيث لا يمكن لأى إنسان إختيار نوع مشاعره الجنسية و لا يمكن لأى إنسان إختيار رغباته الجنسية.فالشخص الطبيعى يجد نفسه منجذبا جنسيا و عاطفيا تجاه الجنس الأخر دون أى إرادة منه و كذلك الشخص المثلى يجد نفسه منجذبا تجاه الأفراد من نفس جنسه دون أى إرادة منه للمزيد عن هذا الموضوع يمكنكم قرآة المقالة التالية في موقع اتحاد علماء النفس الأمريكيين

[MOBIUS]

I just love how Ben can be so utterly moronically stupid across so many subjects...

[KrazyHorse]

Standard of living in Africa has improved slowly but steadily.

Uhhhhhhh.......NO

Per-capita GDP growth in subsaharan Africa was NEGATIVE for most of the second half of the 20th century. Growth there has been PRECISELY NOT slow and steady. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

[KrazyHorse]

I'm curious as to your personal opinion, not whether you would impose it on other people. What would be the ideal fertility rate, in your opinion?

I DON'T KNOW

Haven't I made that clear enough already?

I do know what constitutes a fertility rate which is far too high. When subsistence agriculture is all you have to rely on and people have so many children that the arable land available is overburdened then THAT is too high.

I DON'T know what constitutes an ideal fertility rate, especially in a society as complex as that of a developed nation.

[KrazyHorse]

The thought that you can't even get a simple thing like the recent economic growth of Africa right yet you're qualified to determine as complex as what an ideal fertility rate would be is actually quite hilarious to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

GDP per capita of Africa

1700
400

1820
418

1870
444

1913
585

1950
852

1972
1365

GDP per capita of Western Europe in 1820:

1232

GDP per capita has increased roughly 50 percent from 1950 to 1972.

[Ben Kenobi]

I do know what constitutes a fertility rate which is far too high.

Ok, then you do know what would be the ideal fertility rate.

When subsistence agriculture is all you have to rely on and people have so many children that the arable land available is overburdened then THAT is too high.

Great. You said it was good that nations were reducing their fertility rate to a more 'reasonable' level. Clearly you do have certain signposts out there.

As for myself, I don't buy the myth of overpopulation.