Support For Same Sex Marriage Grows

[Ben Kenobi]

1) How the **** would a kid who is adopted by two gay men be deprived of a father? Or if a kid was conceived through surrogacy and has two lesbian parents that allow for the biological father generous visitation rights?

Arrian has not yet answered the query. He brought up this specific gay couple whom adopted, and I am assuming they are lesbians. Now, I may be wrong on this specific case, but I am not yet wrong, until Arrian steps forward to confirm.

As for the men, they are depriving their child of a mother. Alternative arrangements are always more prone to breakdowns then their equivalents.

2) Your argument that recognizing marriage as a civil right means right to force someone to marry you is utterly, completely retarded and asinine. RIGHT TO MARRY MEANS THAT YOU CAN CHOOSE TO MARRY SOMEONE WHO WISHES TO MARRY YOU provided they're both mentally competent adults and of age of consent. This means two people who wish to marry one another who happen to be gay men can do so, as it is their civil right.

I do not have the civil right to marry any woman whom I would choose, even if she would desire to do so, end of story. Until I do so you cannot argue that marriage is a natural right. There are limitations as you have cited. One of those limitations is between a man and a woman, and it is up to you, to show me why that limitation ought to be lifted while the others should remain. Arguing that marriage is a natural right, is an argument to remove those limitations altogether.

Your STUPID remark about "forcing someone to marry you" makes as much sense if you tried applying it to U.S. Supreme Court's ruling on Loving versus Virginia - "oh no, if people of different races have right to marry one another, they can FORCE someone to marry him/her!"

Do you believe men and women are interchangeable, Mr. Fun? Yes or no?

This really is sad, because either you are so naturally stupid that you really believe civil right to marry means right to force someone to marry you, OR you KNOW that this is a completely false, fallacious argument but you present it anyway to distort the issue. Either way, it is just plain pathetic.

You are making an argument against one that I never made or stated. Do you enjoy your rants? I'm perplexed as to where you are getting your material, Mr. Fun. It's not from me.

[KrazyHorse]

And meeting you would make most people hate Christianity.

Is ben insulting me?

[Q Classic]

Not really. My personal experience with him is that he was simply not right in the head. It reinforced my impressions that being gay really wasn't a positive lifestyle if you want to put it that way.

As Che says, personal experience with you is that you're simply not right in the head, and it reinforces the impressions that being a Christianist who professes a "Christian" faith while cherry picking which precepts to follow isn't a positive lifestyle if you want to put it that way.

Y'know, kinda like how the Mullahs and Imams who issue fatwas over harmless bull**** and proclaim jihad make Islam seem backwards and unpleasant.

Yes, yes, judge God not by the works of man and all of that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Judging by that one line where you made that assumption, I think you have a clear bias towards thinking only lesbians are interested in raising children.

Call me a riverboat gambler. I'm willing to bet Arrian's example couple were lesbians.

[Ben Kenobi]

As Che says, personal experience with you is that you're simply not right in the head, and it reinforces the impressions that being a Christianist who professes a "Christian" faith while cherry picking which precepts to follow isn't a positive lifestyle if you want to put it that way.

Good, then I'm over the target. I'd be worried if folks who hated Christianity liked me.

As for cherry picking, which Christian beliefs am I ignoring?

[Q Classic]

Arrian has not yet answered the query. He brought up this specific gay couple whom adopted, and I am assuming they are lesbians. Now, I may be wrong on this specific case, but I am not yet wrong, until Arrian steps forward to confirm.

And the assumption is what we're pointing out.

I do not have the civil right to marry any woman whom I would choose, even if she would desire to do so, end of story.

Actually you do, with very few limitations, age, relation, and current state of weddedness being among them. End of story.

Arguing that marriage is a natural right, is an argument to remove those limitations altogether.

Actually, I don't think the government should be in the business of marriages, only civil unions.

[Q Classic]

As for cherry picking, which Christian beliefs am I ignoring?

"Love your neighbor as yourself," for one.

[Ben Kenobi]

Y'know, kinda like how the Mullahs and Imams who issue fatwas over harmless bull**** and proclaim jihad make Islam seem backwards and unpleasant.

Oh, so in saying that my personal impression of gay people has been tempered by my experience with my landlord is the same as declaring a fatwa against Gay people? I'm really seeing it.

[Q Classic]

Actually, that's a bad example, because what with your homophobia and other political beliefs, it's clear that if you think it's all right with your religion, you must really hate yourself.

[Q Classic]

Oh, so in saying that my personal impression of gay people has been tempered by my experience with my landlord is the same as declaring a fatwa against Gay people? I'm really seeing it.

Wow. You clearly have poor reading comprehension, because that's clearly not what I said.

[Ben Kenobi]

"Love your neighbor as yourself," for one.

That is a good tenet.

How do you suggest I should have handled the situation with my landlord?

[qutoe]
Actually, that's a bad example, because what with your homophobia and other political beliefs, it's clear that if you think it's all right with your religion, you must really hate yourself.
[/quote]

I am a sinner. If I loved myself why would I be a Christian?

[Q Classic]

That is a good tenet.

How do you suggest I should have handled the situation with my landlord?

Left your distaste and displeasure with him and him alone, and not used it to "temper" your view of other people in that same group.

It may sound to you like I detest religious people, but that's far from the truth. I dislike those who seek to force their beliefs upon mine--you being a classic example.

I am a sinner. If I loved myself why would I be a Christian?

That's the kind of viewpoint, thanks to being raised Catholic and having all of that guilt coupled with Asian filial piety that drove me to suicide once and had me repeatedly considering it again and again.

[Ben Kenobi]

And the assumption is what we're pointing out.

I'm glad you did. Thank you. Obviously I never intended to put that there, and I did so without thinking.

Actually you do, with very few limitations, age, relation, and current state of weddedness being among them. End of story.

Then it's not a natural right, I'm sorry.

Actually, I don't think the government should be in the business of marriages, only civil unions.

Great, so join me then and oppose gay marriage.

[Q Classic]

Then it's not a natural right, I'm sorry.

I'm arguing for equal rights.

Great, so join me then and oppose gay marriage.

No, since you're still in favor of straight marriage.

Why? Because if the government won't get out of the marriage business, then I feel it's only right that the government expands its definition--not the religious one, but the civil one--to be equal and non-discriminatory.

And since the public seems to only want the government more entwined in marriage...

[Ben Kenobi]

Left your distaste and displeasure with him and him alone, and not used it to "temper" your view of other people in that same group.

Ok, now you have to go back to what I actually said. I said my impression of the homosexual lifestyle was tempered by him, and his life. For the person who was supposed to be gay, he was completely unhappy.

I do not think it unreasonable if I avoid doing things the way that he did from the example that he showed me. He is not the only one either, there are others that I have met as well who had similar issues.

It may sound to you like I detest religious people, but that's far from the truth. I dislike those who seek to force their beliefs upon mine--you being a classic example.

Oh, so Christ didn't force his beliefs on anyone when he said, "I and the Father are one?" The mere act of articulating one's beliefs is not forcing anyone to read them let alone abide by them, even as it confronts those who think otherwise. What you are saying is you dislike intellectual confrontation, and would prefer not to engage with others who disagree with you.

That's the kind of viewpoint, thanks to being raised Catholic and having all of that guilt coupled with Asian filial piety that drove me to suicide once and had me repeatedly considering it again and again.

Well I am sorry to hear that. Christ loves you very much QCubed, so much that he died for you. Never forget it. No matter what happens to you in your life, he has not forgotten or given up on you.