Support For Same Sex Marriage Grows

[Q Classic]

What makes you think I haven't experienced it already? Part of my opposition is because of personal experience.

I had no idea you were gay married once, but that makes so much sense now.

Poor soul, being ex-gay and all.

But just because your ex-husband left you for a saner man doesn't mean you should **** on everyone else's happiness.

[Arrian]

Some gay couple kept Ben awake nights having amazing sex and he's held a grudge. The man needs his beauty sleep.



-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

As you know well, I disagree. I think letting gays marry, aside from being right from a moral standpoint, will have a positive impact on society.

How so?

I know a gay couple with adopted kids and I'm absolutely convinced that family is a net positive for our society.

I don't. I think the kid is going to be deprived of a father, and experience the same troubles as any other kid without a father.

I see multiple positive impacts from gay marriage. I do not find your predictions of negative ones compelling. I guess we'll see.

Such as?

The institution of marriage has its problems, but it's not the fault of the gays (having been deliberately excluded until now). My marriage is solid and happy, and gays marrying will do absolutely nothing to change it - or the future marriage(s) of any kids we may have (unless, of course, we have a gay child, in which case the change will turn out to be a clear plus for our offspring).

What marriage means no longer means what it does. When you say your marriage is 'solid and happy', it doesn't mean what it meant yesterday. I don't know if you have a wife or whatnot. I don't think you've really thought the implications through. As for your children, well, they will be dealing with the issues that we have foisted upon them, and we bear the consequences. If they are raised thinking that 'dad's don't matter' and that 'men and women are interchangeable', then they are going to run into problems when they grow up and realise that they have been lied to their whole life.

Knowledge is fairly easy: kids are often dumb and need basics about sex drilled (heh) into them.

So why then has illegitimacy gone up along with sex education? You would expect to see the opposite. Frankly, kids know lots about sex these days, and I think you are being naive if you think that kids are having babies because they don't know how to do it.

Kids are having babies, because they want to be in a loving relationship. They want a boyfriend and a family, but they don't know how to go about and get the things they really want. We've not taught them how to go about and do so.

Sex ed is spotty nowadays, from what I can gather.

When did you go to school Arrian? Sex education is not spotty at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

Expectations: lots of people believe in fairy tales. Sometimes that's harmless. When it comes to the fairy tale of marriage, however, it's a problem. Our culture sells a product called marriage, and like most ad campaigns it lies to you (sorry, Ming). The disconnect between what many people think marriage is and what it really turns out to be results in unhappiness and, in turn, divorce. Your solution appears to be to take away divorce (no-fault, anyway) as an option. Great, now you force unhappy people to stay together. ****ty solution, IMO. I'm really not sure how to solve the expectations problem, but if one is really concerned about the institution of marriage, I think that's the point of attack.

The concept that someone can marry with the consent of two people, and divorce without the consent of both is a problem. You might as well say that I can set up a marriage without the permission of the other person. Divorce is a problem because one person can break it and actually get rewarded for doing so. If you believe that marriage is a contract, the one breaking the contract gets punished, not the one who stayed faithful to it.

In reality those who believe marriage should be a contract, don't really believe that. They believe that marriage should be a non-binding promise. One that can be broken at will whenever one or the other is unhappy with the arrangement. They might not even believe in marriage at all.

This is why I am concerned with gay marriage. Redefining marriage is not going to strengthen marriage, quite the opposite.

What would my solutions be?

1. For starters, I would do away with no-fault divorce. Fault divorce means that there has to be proof of abuse or non-support before the divorce would be granted. If the person still wanted to divorce without proof, they could do so, but they wouldn't be entitled to half the assets of the other person.

2. There has to be education. I agree with you that we aren't giving people the tools that they need to get married and stay married. That needs to change. Sex education is like giving people the keys to the car without training them as to the safe operation of the car. That needs to change. People should be taught how they can get what they really want, a family, husband wife kids and so on.

[Ben Kenobi]

Some gay couple kept Ben awake nights having amazing sex and he's held a grudge. The man needs his beauty sleep.

Lets just say I found stuff, in my bathroom, that I didn't appreciate having to clean up after.

[EPW]

Lets just say I found stuff, in my bathroom, that I didn't appreciate having to clean up after.

semen?

[Ramo]

Santorum?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ramo gets the prize.

[EPW]

So you let your gay neighbors have sex in your bathroom, and they weren't even considerate enough to clean up after themselves?

[Ramo]

Or even invite Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

He was my landlord.

He had issues with 'privacy'.

[chequita guevara]

You do realize how silly this entire argument is, right, che?

This is Apolyton.

[Q Classic]

I don't. I think the kid is going to be deprived of a father, and experience the same troubles as any other kid without a father.

Is the assumption here that only lesbians adopt? Or that gay men are necessarily fake-mothers and not-fathers?

1. For starters, I would do away with no-fault divorce. Fault divorce means that there has to be proof of abuse or non-support before the divorce would be granted. If the person still wanted to divorce without proof, they could do so, but they wouldn't be entitled to half the assets of the other person.

Strengthens marriage in a way, but has nothing to do with the status of gay marriage.

2. There has to be education. I agree with you that we aren't giving people the tools that they need to get married and stay married. That needs to change. Sex education is like giving people the keys to the car without training them as to the safe operation of the car. That needs to change. People should be taught how they can get what they really want, a family, husband wife kids and so on.

Again, has nothing to do with the status of gay marraige.

[Q Classic]

Or even invite Ben.

Wow, so not only was Ben dumped by his ex-husband, his ex-husband was running around on him and left incriminating evidence behind.

No wonder he's against gay marriage.

[KrazyHorse]

Some gay couple kept Ben awake nights having amazing sex

Was Ben the meat or one of the buns?

[chequita guevara]

I guess that's fair. Hetero couples keep having sex next to our building, and I hate all heterosexuals because of it.