Roe is gone! :D

[giblets]

Not according to SCOTUS you can't. The decision made clear it did not cover mandated religious actions.

And if the players who don't play along just happen to get harsher treatment from the coach?

[PLATO]

And if the players who don't play along just happen to get harsher treatment from the coach?

I imagine that they would have the opportunity to take legal action as any other disparate treatment would allow.

[Geronimo]

And if the players who don't play along just happen to get harsher treatment from the coach?

There were no instructions given to any student. How would the students even know if they were 'playing along' or not?

[Egbert]

I am strongly in favour of abortion being legal.

My reason is pretty simple. Somebody has to decide and I reckon the best person to decide is the one who is pregnant.

I also reckon nobody should be forced to do an abortion. Leave it to doctors and nurses who are willing to perform the abortion.

I would also support abortion being available on Medicare (which is our free public health system).

[N35t0r]

I also reckon nobody should be forced to do an abortion. Leave it to doctors and nurses who are willing to perform the abortion.

So you are saying that you're fine with doctors withholding (in some cases life-saving) treatment from patients over personal belief?

[Egbert]

No. I am saying a doctor should not be forced to perform an abortion.
This implies that a doctor might see an abortion as murder.
Whilst I strongly support availability of abortions I also recognise there are arguments against abortion.

[Ben Kenobi]

Really Kenobi? Dancing smilies? You really want to live in a Christo-fascist society? In Gilead? On the bright side, now there will be a constant new supply of children that can be gunned down.

Yep. Waited a long time for this. 20+ years for me. Children are a blessing from God, and now the most reprehensible SCOTUS decision has been overturned. Plessy vs Ferguson only cost Americans around 600k lives to settle the score. Roe has over 60 million.

[Berzerker]

Howdy Ben, wasn't plessy about separate but equal? Maybe you're thinking of the civil war, 600k died to ensure slaves were free to have bodily autonomy. Ironic, huh?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm just poasting to say hi to Mr. Kenobi

Hi Zee! I hope all is well!

[Ben Kenobi]

The Republicans quit following norms when they didn't allow Garland (or an alternative) to move forward. Then they demonstrated their hypocrisy by moving forward on Barrett while voting was happening (and their candidate was losing).

Perhaps we should review what occurred with Justice Bork. Had Reagan been able to nominate the justices that he wanted to nominate, Roe wouldn't have survived Casey without O'Connor and Kennedy. Bork would have been vote number 5 to overturn back in the 90s.

We could also review how the Roe majority came to be in the first place, with Nixon facing the same thing with the justices that wrote the opinion. It wasn't until the 90s that the Republicans actually had congressional control. Prior to that the Ds blocked all the nominees they didn't like.

What goes around, comes around. Perhaps it should really have just been about qualifications and not politics in the first place, right?

[ZEE]

Hi Zee! I hope all is well!

Indeed, sir. This is AAHZ if you missed my name switch years back. Despite what others think, I always liked our talks.

[Ben Kenobi]

So...the validity of the 14th amendment argument has been in question for decades. Until now, the court has allowed freedom and common sense to overrule its constitutional mission. They have now fulfilled their purpose. It is up to us (those of us in the U.S.) to take action with our national representatives to once and for all codify into the Constitution a women's right to do with her own body as she sees fit. Until the day when we can make enough people see the light to make this happen we need to get involved locally with our state representatives to make them do the right thing. Remember, the true power here lies with the people...we need only to act with purpose to achieve those goals.

Roe circumvented the democratic process and the debate in the 70s to establish a norm well out of step with where society was at the time. It's also warped American politics for more than 50 years. All Dobbs has done is returned that decision to the elected representatives in America.

So really, if you can convince the majority of the people that abortion after the first trimester should be legal, you'll get that. That's how it should have been in the 70s. Had liberals at the time allowed that process to occur, I suspect we would be in a different place today.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's hope the ****stain that is the OP never has a daughter that gets pregnant... otherwise he will have to pay for an abortion in a state that allows it...

Well, since 1992, that's been the law here. I have to pay for abortions.

[Ben Kenobi]

And I think the central reason why people want abortions is isn't that 'people are selfish' or 'young people are selfish' or 'liberals are selfish'. I think the central reason why people want abortions is because the US (as a whole) is just so anti-child and parent unfriendly. We need pre/post-natal care. We need free childbirths. We need parental leave (for both mothers and fathers). Raising children is a huge cost and, when done right, a huge benefit for society, but we force the burdens all on parents and we structure society to do this

It might surprise you, but we are broadly in agreement, and I think more in agreement (at 6 weeks), than most of the country is right now. The most restrictive laws that are being passed are heartbeat bills that ban abortion after 8 weeks. I actually think that is a reasonable compromise.

The reason why I believe that abortion is wrong after conception is because of the concept of personhood. 6 weeks is a definition based on external characteristics. Genetically, there's no difference between 5 or 6. You are still talking about the same child. Think of it as a logical chain. You start at 20 weeks and work backwards.

There's no bright line, ergo, conception is the line where life begins.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hi Albert!

I'm not going to be an 'active member' again, but I do have a little time this morning. More important things to do with my life.

[Ben Kenobi]

Per Griswold, I think the decision (as well as Loving and Obergefell), are based on the same issues that doomed Roe, reading into the constitution rights that don't exist. The constitution does not establish a 'right to privacy', you don't have the right to murder someone just because you kill them in your bedroom. Besides, you all believe that contraception should be covered by the government, so that de facto nullifies the privacy argument anyways.

Personally, I don't see a contraception ban as enforceable. There's always going to be a pharmacist who prescribes it. I believe that pharmacists, and anyone involved with it should have the right to not dispense it, but beyond it, that's the extent of the regulation. This should be regulated in the same way alcohol is regulated, you don't need a SCOTUS case to establish this.

Does it mean that some small rural areas might actually ban it? Sure, just like some states have blue laws. Does that mean that people in those areas have the right to vote out their officials that pass these bans? Also yes.

[Berzerker]

booze was banned with a constitutional amendment - and yet there is no mention of alcohol use in the Constitution... No mention of conception either

[Geronimo]

So you are saying that you're fine with doctors withholding (in some cases life-saving) treatment from patients over personal belief?

Obviously. If there are no doctors available willing to perform a life saving procedure then it's off the table.

Imagine if it became legal for doctors to transplant organs from patients with one of a list of conditions deemed likely to justify such a transplant regardless of any prior patient objections let alone failure to volunteer to be a donor. If a doctor refused to remove organs from non consenting patients in that scenario, you're saying that's not fine? The doctor must be coerced/compelled to perform the legal life saving procedure?