Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Ming]

And that has what to do with all you wild Biden claims....
Also.... I can see why Ukraine would reject the deal that was "claimed" to have been offered since it amounted to just giving up their land. Last time, Russia just took what they wanted, and here they were doing it again.


Just on Monday...

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Monday that Moscow is ready for talks on the "post-conflict settlement" of the war in Ukraine.

Shoigu made the remarks at the Beijing Xiangshan Forum, China's largest military diplomacy event, saying that Russia is also ready for talks on further "co-existence" with the West, but said Western countries needed to stop seeking the strategic defeat of his country.

The prospect of peace talks between Kyiv and Moscow have been raised multiple times since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

The Kremlin has specified a few conditions that are non-negotiable for Russia, including that Ukraine must accept the September 2022 annexation of four of its regions—Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia—following referendums called by Putin that were deemed illegal by the international community.

Not much of a deal for the Ukraine... Russia gets to steal their land. I can see why Ukraine hasn't taken them up on this.

But yet again, NO PROOF of ANY of you wild ass Biden conspiracy theories...
​

[Broken_Erika]

Ukraine war: Whole family shot dead in Russian-occupied Ukrainian town

​ Nine people, including two young children, have been found shot dead in their house in the Russian-occupied eastern Ukrainian town of Volnovakha.

Ukrainian officials say they believe Russian soldiers killed the whole of the Kapkanets family on 27 October for refusing to give them their house.

Russian investigators say two male suspects have been held, saying they are Russian soldiers from the Far East.

Ukraine and Russia have begun separate investigations into the attack.

Photographs have emerged on social media showing blood-splattered and bullet-riddled bodies lying in beds, some of them still locked in an embrace.

Ukrainian ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets said on Monday that "Russians' bloodied hands were involved" in the Volnovakha killings.

"According to preliminary information, the occupiers have killed the whole of the Kapkanets family, who were celebrating a birthday and who had refused to hand their own house over to occupiers from Chechnya," he said on Telegram.

The Ukrainian-controlled Donetsk prosecutor's office, citing preliminary information, said the attackers in army uniforms shot the family dead after their demand to vacate the house had been rejected.

Two children, born in 2014 and 2018, were among the victims, the office added.

Russia's official Investigations Committee described those arrested as Russian soldiers from the country's Far East, who had signed contracts with the Russian military.

"According to preliminary information, the motive for the crime was a domestic conflict," the committee said in a statement.

Astra, a Russian news channel on Telegram, earlier quoted the victims' neighbours as blaming the Russian military for the killings.

"All of the neighbours are saying that the killers were in the military. We're all scared," one neighbour told Astra.

Baza, another Russian Telegram channel, said members of the household had had "a conflict with unidentified men wearing military fatigues with no insignia".

Volnovakha was captured by Russian forces just weeks after the start of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Most of the town has been destroyed.

The killings in Volnovakha come as fierce fighting continues on the vast battle front of Ukraine's eastern and southern regions.

Kyiv launched its counter-offensive in June, trying to split the occupying Russian troops in the southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions in two, and make their resupply more difficult.

So far, the Ukrainian advance has been slow and costly, as the Russians have had time to prepare their defensive lines.

In recent weeks, Moscow has also been on the attack near the key city of Avdiivka in the Donetsk region, as well as Kupyansk in the north-eastern Kharkiv region.

Ukraine's military says all Moscow's attacks have been "unsuccessful", reporting heavy Russian casualties around Avdiivka - a gateway to the Russian-held regional capital of Donetsk.

The claims by the warring sides have not been independently verified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67262610

[BeBMan]

Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come.

Here's what those reserves look like:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67175566

[Thoth]

High quality reserve machine gun detectors.

[Berzerker]

And that has what to do with all you wild Biden claims....
Also.... I can see why Ukraine would reject the deal that was "claimed" to have been offered since it amounted to just giving up their land. Last time, Russia just took what they wanted, and here they were doing it again.

Just on Monday...

Not much of a deal for the Ukraine... Russia gets to steal their land. I can see why Ukraine hasn't taken them up on this.

But yet again, NO PROOF of ANY of you wild ass Biden conspiracy theories...
​

Look at the dates, Sept '22 was a year after Biden rejected Putin's peace offer and months after Biden rejected the deal Putin and Zelensky made. Ukraine didn't reject the deal, they agreed to it and Russia withdrew its army from Kiev. Thats when Biden sent Boris over to veto a peace deal after it was already made. If all this was about Russia stealing land Putin wouldn't have supported Minsk and repeatedly rejected pleas from the people living in the Donbas to exit Ukraine for 8 years. Do you want to put Azov in charge of the Donbas? I dont.

[Geronimo]

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

Azov was the smallest it has been in years when the Russians pulled back from Kiev. There is nothing Biden could have done, especially through Azov, to force Ukraine and Russia to wage war against each other.

​​​​​​Nobody said no to any peace deal. Ukraine's allies did assure them they wouldn't have to surrender. How can you not recognize the difference?

[-Jrabbit]

Every "peace" proposal I've seen has included a non-negotiable point of Ukraine's acceptance of Russia's illegal annexation of 4 Ukrainian territories (Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia) along with keeping Crimea.

That's not a peace proposal; it's surrender.

[Ming]

But remember... Berz blames Biden for every world crisis, and never considers that the actual invader who is trying to steal land is to blame.
In his mind, Putin just wanted to "save" all the people his troops randomly killed and raped, while destroying their towns. But I guess he saw it on a video on the internet.

One more time Berz... as JR says, there were no "PEACE DEALS" just demands to surrender.
But feel free to blame everything on Biden like you always do.

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/iPIyKRhg8vk

"Money trumps.... peace.... sometimes" - George Bush

money trumps peace

[Berzerker]

old people have a harder time sealing the vault and the truth leaks out occasionally

[BeBMan]

Every "peace" proposal I've seen has included a non-negotiable point of Ukraine's acceptance of Russia's illegal annexation of 4 Ukrainian territories (Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia) along with keeping Crimea.

That's not a peace proposal; it's surrender.

Indeed, and it would reward aggression if Russia can just keep stolen lands. In the absence of military success this is the primary reason for lobbying for these kind of "peace deals" .

This would make further aggression more likely, as there is no guarantee for Ukraine that Putin would not try the same again after he licked his wounds...

[Berzerker]

Azov was the smallest it has been in years when the Russians pulled back from Kiev. There is nothing Biden could have done, especially through Azov, to force Ukraine and Russia to wage war against each other.

​​​​​​Nobody said no to any peace deal. Ukraine's allies did assure them they wouldn't have to surrender. How can you not recognize the difference?

Azov was 'disappeared' into the army. In 2014 the Ukrainian army was small and Azov attacked and conquered Mariupol and was only driven out 8 years later by Russia. Why wasn't the Ukrainian army based in Mariupol? But Azov is just the obvious face of the wider movement, Right Sector, Svoboda, there's a bunch of right wing nationalists in the army who are the muscle on the ground. They were responsible for Maidan and undoubtedly the massacre that drove the leader from office. The Russians pulled back from Kiev because they had a deal with Ukraine, its that simple. And ofc the necons lied to us about it because they didn't want any credit for the war, kinda like how US politicians kept telling us 'they hate our freedom' after 9/11 to hide the fact thousands of Americans died for their agenda.

As for what Biden and friends did, they funded "reformers" to affect policy and looked the other way as their allies slaughtered protesters to frame the leader. We poured billions into this effort before the coup and afterward to arm the Ukrainian right wing (eg Azov). The media started noticing Obama and Biden were arming Nazis (and ISIS) so Congress got around to pretending they cared by prohibiting arms to Azov which the Pentagon ignored. If Russia was arming right wing nationalists attacking the people living along our border the USA would be unified behind defending the victims. They did surrender, they had a peace deal and we vetoed it. Next time they surrender Ukraine could be landlocked, the more Russian parts of the country probably dont want to be ruled by Kiev/CIA if Azov et al are still in charge and they likely will be. US policy is never ending war, been that way before I was born which was about when Ike left office with a warning about the military and Wall St. I dont think Russia will be satisfied with returning to 2014 with the front further west.

[Ming]

So again... your concept of a peace treaty is simply surrendering... So aggression should be rewarded.
And yet again, if Russia cared oh soooooo much about the people... Why did they kill and rape them while destroying their towns.
You never seem to answer that one... But I guess in your mind, the Russians are the real heroes in this story. Guess what, they aren't.
They have killed and raped far more people and have destroyed far more towns in their attempt to expand their empire while stealing another countries land. But keep continue to support them.
Russia's idea of peace is to take what they want, no matter who gets hurt.

[Geronimo]

Azov was 'disappeared' into the army. In 2014 the Ukrainian army was small and Azov attacked and conquered Mariupol and was only driven out 8 years later by Russia. Why wasn't the Ukrainian army based in Mariupol? But Azov is just the obvious face of the wider movement, Right Sector, Svoboda, there's a bunch of right wing nationalists in the army who are the muscle on the ground. They were responsible for Maidan and undoubtedly the massacre that drove the leader from office. The Russians pulled back from Kiev because they had a deal with Ukraine, its that simple. And ofc the necons lied to us about it because they didn't want any credit for the war, kinda like how US politicians kept telling us 'they hate our freedom' after 9/11 to hide the fact thousands of Americans died for their agenda.

As for what Biden and friends did, they funded "reformers" to affect policy and looked the other way as their allies slaughtered protesters to frame the leader. We poured billions into this effort before the coup and afterward to arm the Ukrainian right wing (eg Azov). The media started noticing Obama and Biden were arming Nazis (and ISIS) so Congress got around to pretending they cared by prohibiting arms to Azov which the Pentagon ignored. If Russia was arming right wing nationalists attacking the people living along our border the USA would be unified behind defending the victims. They did surrender, they had a peace deal and we vetoed it. Next time they surrender Ukraine could be landlocked, the more Russian parts of the country probably dont want to be ruled by Kiev/CIA if Azov et al are still in charge and they likely will be. US policy is never ending war, been that way before I was born which was about when Ike left office with a warning about the military and Wall St. I dont think Russia will be satisfied with returning to 2014 with the front further west.

You've continually declared that Azov was the enforcer of US policy in Ukraine and the check on Zelensky's desire to implement the Minsk agreement. Now you say they are part of a wider movement, Right Sector, Svoboda that are all folded into the military and control it. How is that supposed to work? How do you covertly control a military by folding your mercenaries into the national military's command and pay structure? Again, if Zelensky and Putin wanted peace between each how would Boris, Biden and NATO stop them?

Furthermore, Russia never stopped shelling, invading and generally bombing anywhere else along the huge front with Ukraine while it was withdrawing from the Kiev area leaving its heavy equipment behind. What in the hell is simple about that? What possible terms would have allowed Russia to continue any of that? What is obvious is that either Ukraine and Russia had no deal or if they did it was secret and immediately broken by Russia. Not simple Berz. There were negotiations occurring between Ukraine and Russia and Ukraine was sending out feelers of which demands it considered totally non negotiable and NATO and other allies did communicate to Ukraine what they thought they could offer in terms of support to give Ukraine a way to avoid capitulation or defeat but nobody anywhere claims they said or were in a position to say "no" to any kind of deal between Ukraine and Russia. No power on earth could have stopped Ukraine, or any government really from surrendering. Every source you have provided fails to show otherwise. Finally even if they had surrendered it obviously would not have saved any lives because Russia was continuing to attack Ukraine along the entire front, except where their forces had been encircled, depleted and cut off from supplies where they abandoned equipment and routed across the border in total disarray.

[Ming]

Good luck convincing Berz his internet videos aren't THE TRUTH. He continues to sprout whatever they tell him to.
Remember, Biden is to blame for all the bad things going on in the world today

[Berzerker]

So again... your concept of a peace treaty is simply surrendering... So aggression should be rewarded.
And yet again, if Russia cared oh soooooo much about the people... Why did they kill and rape them while destroying their towns.
You never seem to answer that one... But I guess in your mind, the Russians are the real heroes in this story. Guess what, they aren't.
They have killed and raped far more people and have destroyed far more towns in their attempt to expand their empire while stealing another countries land. But keep continue to support them.
Russia's idea of peace is to take what they want, no matter who gets hurt.

What exactly is Ukraine surrendering? Control of Crimea and Donbas... I dont know how this can still be debatable after all this time but Crimea and Donbas dont want to be controlled by Kiev's Nazis. And it was Kiev that attacked the Donbas, not the other way around. Your victory for Ukraine means putting Nazis in charge of the peoples they've been killing for close to a decade now. After the 2014 coup Ukrainians fleeing the Nazis had a safe haven in eastern Ukraine, they wont have that if Kiev wins. I know who started the fight

[Berzerker]

You've continually declared that Azov was the enforcer of US policy in Ukraine and the check on Zelensky's desire to implement the Minsk agreement. Now you say they are part of a wider movement, Right Sector, Svoboda that are all folded into the military and control it. How is that supposed to work? How do you covertly control a military by folding your mercenaries into the national military's command and pay structure? Again, if Zelensky and Putin wanted peace between each how would Boris, Biden and NATO stop them?

Furthermore, Russia never stopped shelling, invading and generally bombing anywhere else along the huge front with Ukraine while it was withdrawing from the Kiev area leaving its heavy equipment behind. What in the hell is simple about that? What possible terms would have allowed Russia to continue any of that? What is obvious is that either Ukraine and Russia had no deal or if they did it was secret and immediately broken by Russia. Not simple Berz. There were negotiations occurring between Ukraine and Russia and Ukraine was sending out feelers of which demands it considered totally non negotiable and NATO and other allies did communicate to Ukraine what they thought they could offer in terms of support to give Ukraine a way to avoid capitulation or defeat but nobody anywhere claims they said or were in a position to say "no" to any kind of deal between Ukraine and Russia. No power on earth could have stopped Ukraine, or any government really from surrendering. Every source you have provided fails to show otherwise. Finally even if they had surrendered it obviously would not have saved any lives because Russia was continuing to attack Ukraine along the entire front, except where their forces had been encircled, depleted and cut off from supplies where they abandoned equipment and routed across the border in total disarray.

Yes, Azov led the assault on the east after the coup. They took Mariupol and made it their base until Russia expelled them in '22. When Zelensky showed up trying to enforce Minsk they told him to get lost. The army follows orders, the Nazis issue the orders. I dont blame him, they'd kill him if he tried to stop the fighting and they'd have our blessing. Right Sector and Svoboda and Azov are not limited to the military, following the coup top people in these organizations were given jobs high up in the government. Their leader was one of the 3 people Nuland was considering to replace the guy about to run for his life. She's so prescient... Pray she never shows up in your neighborhood with cookies and democracy.

Why are you still arguing there was no deal? I posted another link showing they had a deal, Zelensky and Putin did want peace and Biden made an offer Zelensky couldn't refuse. Do you have a link showing Putin ordered attacks in the east after he withdrew from Kiev and before Zelensky saved his own neck? The deal would have returned the situation to Feb 23 but we already know 2 actors supported the deal and 2 opposed it. Putin and Zelensky wanted it and Azov and the USA didn't want it. Take a good look at our allies, remind you of moderate rebels fighting our proxy war against Syria? What do you think would have happened to Zelensky if he defied both the USA and Azov? Another coup, another executed traitor.