Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[N35t0r]

I dont want my taxes and govt arming Nazis to kill people in Ukraine, I dont care what side of a line the victims are on. If there was an anti-Mexican coup in Washington and they sent a right wing army to kill Mexican-Americans in the SW Mexico would have the right to defend the victims.

So you're OK with genocide being perpetrated and don't think it's OK to help them as long as at least one of the people being genocided is far-right. Gotcha.

[Ming]

I dont want my taxes and govt arming Nazis to kill people in Ukraine, I dont care what side of a line the victims are on. If there was an anti-Mexican coup in Washington and they sent a right wing army to kill Mexican-Americans in the SW Mexico would have the right to defend the victims.

So you would support Mexico invading the US.

[dannubis]

No Mexico doesn't pay in Rubles.

[Berzerker]

Of course, the victims have the right of self defense and that right empowers others to defend them. Thats kinda what our system is based on, cops have the right to protect you from attackers because you have the right to defend yourself. Thats why the people of the Donbas have the moral high ground, they got attacked.

Uncle Sam pays more

[Geronimo]

Bull****. They attacked first. Nobody "attacked them" because "they didn't support the coup". Arming yourself, declaring independence and seizing public buildings is attacking Ukraine. Ukraine sending armed thugs to take back the public buildings isn't "attacking them", let along "attacking them for not supporting the coup". It's retaking seized public buildings.

[Berzerker]

Russia is supposed to leave Ukraine and let the people go where they want. Perhaps, even rebuild their homes.

How do you ignore 8 years of Nazis attacking eastern Ukrainians? I dont mean to pick on Nazis, I'd feel the same way if we armed ISIS to kill Syrians to change that regime. And I think thats what this war is about, hoping pressure on Putin will lead to another Yeltzin. We invaded a safe haven for Ukrainians fleeing Azov and its allies after their coup. Do you believe the US wanted peace or war? The US waged a Nato backed war on Russia's border for 8 years and impeached Trump for interfering.

[Ming]

The US waged a Nato backed war on Russia's border for 8 years and impeached Trump for interfering.

That's not why he was impeached
Can I have some of what you are smoking.

[BlackCat]

Considering what that stuff has done to his brain, I'm pretty sure that you don't want to try it

[Berzerker]

I'd say that the flooded area was the hardest hit... After all Crimea managed fine both before the canal was built and after it was shut off once Russia illegally annexed Crimea.

Or would you rather have your house flooded than your tap water turned off?

The flooded area got hit by water, not a loss of water.

[N35t0r]

The areas in Ukraine that have lost irrigation are much larger than the total agricultural land in Crimea, and the expected economic downfall is around three times larger than the total agricultural output of Crimea before the Russian occupation (so much greater disparity now).

You say that Russia couldn't possibly have blown the dam because it cuts water to Crimea, but the damage to Ukraine is not only much larger, it is also even greater when you compare it as a proportion of the Ukrainian economy to what its effect on Crimea is as a proportion of the Russian economy.

[Berzerker]

So you're OK with genocide being perpetrated and don't think it's OK to help them as long as at least one of the people being genocided is far-right. Gotcha.

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

[Berzerker]

That's not why he was impeached
Can I have some of what you are smoking.

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden. Apparently Congress declared war on the people living there without making it official because I thought the Prez runs foreign policy.

[Geronimo]

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

[pchang]

Because it aligns with his desires and makes him feel better about himself.

[Berzerker]

That's not why he was impeached
Can I have some of what you are smoking.

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden. Apparently Congress declared war on the people living there without making it official because I thought the Prez runs foreign policy.

[Berzerker]

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

Why did they 'separate'? They didn't support the coup. Protesters seizing public buildings in response to a coup is a protest, I dont know who or when they declared independence because the Donbas agreed to Minsk and that was a compromise to stay in Ukraine. If Russia was the villain why didn't the people of the Donbas turn their guns eastward in 2014 and help Azov repel the Russian invasion? They didn't do that, they were fighting Azov and asking Russia for help.

[Ming]

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

Exactly... they impeached him for trying to extort the Ukraine government into doing his PERSONAL bidding in trying to take down a political rival. He didn't give a rat's ass about Ukraine, or it's people... JUST HIMSELF.

[Berzerker]

He cared enough to avoid this war

[pchang]

You are delusional if you think Trump had any influence on Putin’s decision to invade in Feb. 2022.

[Berzerker]

Trump had influence when he was president and it aint no coincidence the war machine did all it could to get rid of him. That was the coup and Jan 6 was the protest in response. Our own bureaucracies rig our elections and complain about Russian troll farms buying click bait ads on social media.

[Geronimo]

Why did they 'separate'? They didn't support the coup. Protesters seizing public buildings in response to a coup is a protest, I dont know who or when they declared independence because the Donbas agreed to Minsk and that was a compromise to stay in Ukraine. If Russia was the villain why didn't the people of the Donbas turn their guns eastward in 2014 and help Azov repel the Russian invasion? They didn't do that, they were fighting Azov and asking Russia for help.

So what? Coups don't grant license for everyone to secede. Where the hell did you ever hear otherwise? OMG, it wasn't even a coup that removed their president it was a constitutionally dodgy removal. Dodgy, not illegal. Seceding from Ukraine OTOH...that was illegal.

People who declare independence in response to a coup, or anything else really, are starting a war Berz. Seizing public buildings with armed force is an act of war.

Minsk didn't matter. Minsk doesn't trump domestic law and international law regards treaties not upheld by at least two parties as invalid anyway. NOBODY anywhere followed through on Minsk. It was a dead letter. Ukraine delivered plenty on Minsk. Russia and the separatists...nada.

Zelensky tried to change that. Azov didn't stop him. Putin stopped him.

[Dinner]

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

They were paid Putin proxies and nothing more.

[N35t0r]

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

The people who got attacked were actually violently occupying Lugansk and Donetsk, and had Russian special forces and equipment alongside them.

You will also have to provide proof that most of the people killed since have been pro-Russian civilians.

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/GIBrR1agjrA

2015 NYT says Ukraine has a Nazi problem, 2022 Azov is celebrated