Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

WTF would NATO sign a treaty forbidding Ukraine from ever joining? Already, in Annexing Crimea Putin already had violated the United Nations Charter, the1975 Helsinki Final Act: and the 1997 Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - just to mention fully binding treaties to say nothing of written commitments like the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. In signing the treaty in an attempt to placate an unapologetic treaty breaker still in office what possible safety would that have offered to Ukrainians? Anybody in NATO could have literally officially wiped their dirty arses with any draft treaty and it would not extend the tiniest culpability to them for any of Russia's actions. In any case, since logically the the only way that Russia could carry out a threat to invade Ukraine intended to coerce NATO into compliance would be by overtly breaking several treaties, what value would signing the treaty possibly have for NATO since the other party has already indicated that it does not recognize treaties as providing any constraint on its actions? It would be incredibly stupid to sign any treaty in response to a promise to refrain from a certain treaty breaking behavior.


Anyway when you said "draft treaty" I thought you were referring to the quasi-fictional early 2022 draft treaty that supposedly made Putin leave Kiev. You talk about that far more often. Please provide more context.

To spare Ukraine and the people of the Donbas this war, I thought peace was our goal It aint like we actually observe treaties but we could have easily prevented this war if we allowed "democracy" in Ukraine. If Biden was serious about peace he wouldn't have been telling Zelensky to lie about potential Nato membership. I dont think you have a leg to stand on as far as laws and charters, the 2014 coup and slaughter of protesters wasn't legal and no amount of lipstick will cover that pig. People in eastern Ukraine rejected it and Joe Biden doesn't get to send Nazis after them and call it democracy. Russia spent 7-8 years watching Kiev and Washington break the Minsk treaties and now we know why, it was a sham by the west to arm Ukraine. Thats why we kept the war in the Donbas going, couldn't make peace and expect Russia to invade.

[Berzerker]

Putin did not invade because Trump was weakening NATO. Once Trump was gone and NATO started to strengthen its cohesiveness, there was nothing to be gained from waiting anymore.

8 years was long enough I guess... Putin invaded for 2 reasons: stop Kiev's attack on the Donbas and ensure Ukraine doesn't become a Nato platform for missiles along the border manned by Azov

[BlackCat]

I somehow find this guy interesting - he's kind of boring , but then again, he is german

[Ming]

8 years was long enough I guess... Putin invaded for 2 reasons: stop Kiev's attack on the Donbas and ensure Ukraine doesn't become a Nato platform for missiles along the border manned by Azov

Nice way to stop an attack... attack yourself and kill and rape far more people. Great Job.
And they attacked for only one reason... A land grab/empire building. It's obvious they never cared about the people.
But please keep pushing the "Russians are saviors" narrative...

[Berzerker]

waiting 8 years didn't end the attack on the Donbas, this will

[pchang]

Putin’s attack has only increased the killing in the Donbas. The only way Putin’s war stops the killing in the Donbas is by killing all the people so there are no more left to kill.

[Berzerker]

Putin called that denazifying Ukraine

[BeBMan]

I somehow find this guy interesting - he's kind of boring , but then again, he is german

Lies! It's far more probable that lots of helis fell out of airbase windows or that some drunk/drugged guys toyed with hand grenades

[Berzerker]

WWII? Gee, what happened back then to kill so many Russians? This is how the Canadian parliament ends up giving a standing ovation to Nazis

[BeBMan]

Just rumours for now, so maybe it's something, or just nothing:

Russian President Vladimir Putin suffers cardiac arrest in presidential bedroom, an insider group reveals

Russian President Vladimir Putin has suffered a cardiac arrest in his bedroom following months of speculation over his health, a source has claimed.

https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/russian-president-vladimir-putin-suffers-cardiac-arrest-in-presidential-bedroom-an-insider-group-reveals/news-story/c02c8dff64dd79a4c8e53bec6ae8f3d8

[pchang]

Fembot assassination attempt.

[Dauphin]

I think they are confusing it with a sudden heart failure and death of another Lukoil executive. Russia suspects foul play as this executive failed to fall out of the window like the last one.

[BeBMan]

Just read about this, second guy in a year. I think he was planned to go to a hospital first to properly fall out of the hospital window like the earlier chap to avoid any supicions, but something went wrong...

[BeBMan]

The Kremlin has rejected speculation about Vladimir Putin’s health, saying the president is fit and well.

In a regular call with reporters, Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesperson, also denied suggestions that the Russian leader was using body doubles, calling them an “absurd hoax”.(...)

From https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...0808b5315ba0ea


I guess that settles it...

[Berzerker]

Putin was skating around the outside of the rink next to the wall before a hockey game and someone had laid out a small carpet for some reason and Vlad hit that and face planted... that was a few years ago.

[BeBMan]

Is Belarus pessimistic about the big push south? Or is Putin still alive and sends out his underling to beg for peace in three days?? So many questions and no youtube vid

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putin-lukashenko-ukraine-russia-war-peace-talks-b2438217.html

[Berzerker]

Putin has been offering peace deals for over 2 years, Nato/Biden said "NYET"... Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come. Maybe... is there a need for it? Russia can sit back and take advantage of their defensive lines while Biden badgers Zelensky into more 'counter offensives'.

[Geronimo]

Putin has been offering peace deals for over 2 years, Nato/Biden said "NYET"... Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come. Maybe... is there a need for it? Russia can sit back and take advantage of their defensive lines while Biden badgers Zelensky into more 'counter offensives'.

suppose Ukraine and Putin say "Da" to a peace deal Berz. How does Nato/Biden say "NYET"? use Azov to kill Zelensky's family? Couldn't Zelensky and Putin kill Azov instead? Really, what possible leverage would Nato/Biden have to force an unwanted war on Putin/Zelensky?

[Berzerker]

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

[Berzerker]

probably for his own protection... if Nazis were pissed off at my friend and firing him removed him from potential crosshairs I'd consider it a wise move

[Ming]

Putin has been offering peace deals for over 2 years, Nato/Biden said "NYET"... Once Russia is ready to send in the reserves and no deal is made and/if the ground can support heavy machinery the push will come. Maybe... is there a need for it? Russia can sit back and take advantage of their defensive lines while Biden badgers Zelensky into more 'counter offensives'.

Biden made Zelensky a better offer... and Azov wouldn't kill him.

and... no, Zelensky couldn't kill Azov and if he tried they'd/we'd kill him. You already know Zelensky got elected to make peace and when he showed up in the Donbas Azov sent him packing with his tail between his legs. He's an actor playing a role and trying to stay alive. When Azov objected to his friend and adviser Zelensky sent his friend packing.

Please provide proof of all of your wild ass theories... especially the exact peace deals you keep talking about. And actual proof that it is NATO/Biden that is turning them down, and that Biden is in charge of the Ukraine military actions... or are you just sprouting more stuff that you have seen in internet videos.

[Berzerker]

The evidence has already been posted, Nato Secy Gen admitted they rejected Russia's deal to keep Ukraine out of Nato in the summer/fall of '21 and in March '22 Russia advanced on Kiev to pressure Zelensky and he made a deal and Russia withdrew from Kiev. Biden sent Boris over to educate Zelensky about our goal for Ukraine and peace was not in their future. So he could either choose to play the role and make millions, maybe a billion, or get assassinated like his peace negotiator did on March 5 2022.

“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”

The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/