Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Ming]

By using weapons shipments... Interfering in the war. Earlier Trump ended Obama's policy of arming ISIS for regime change in Syria and agreed to let Russia save Assad so Mad Dog Mattis resigned. When Trump started making waves in Ukraine they impeached him. Vindman was upset because Trump was 'tying' weapons to an investigation. They invented Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan when Trump was dealing with the Taliban. I see a pattern, powerful people get very upset by peace. Senate Democrats extorted Ukraine to investigate Trump over bogus Clinton allegations when we know Biden's kid worked for Burisma and Joe fired the investigating cop. I think that should have been investigated.

The weapons shipment was a threat... extortion to have them do HIS PERSONAL BIDDING. FACT!
The rest of you statement is just pure maga alt right nonsense.
The only pattern you see is what the alt right is lying about.
You keep claiming that the dems are the pro war party... but which party wants to keep raising the Pentagon budget and which party wants to reduce it.
Oh, that's right. Trump and his cronies in the Republican party are the leaders of the big war/defense machine. Every time the Dems even hint at lowering military spending, the Repubs go nuts.

[Proteus_MST]

There is video of Zelensky visiting Azov in the Donbas telling them to give up their position in accordance with Minsk, they declined and he left. And we know from western leaders Minsk was merely a delaying tactic to give Ukraine time to build its military. Thats why they kept the war going, it would look bad if peace broke out and the USA and Kiev restarted the war years later. Good reason for inflated military budgets too, peace makes war profiteers unhappy.

The constitutionally dodgy (illegal?) removal followed the coup - the coup was the massacre to frame the leader to facilitate his removal. Did BLM declare war when they seized or destroyed public property? It was a protest, they were protesting the coup. At least their cause was real, BLM had to lie about cops to rile the masses. BLM lied and people died... Helluva epithet, RIP BLM. Did the people in the Donbas destroy neighborhoods or just seize town hall? People have the right to secede. If their govt is toppled by fascists in a coup they have the right to resist and they have the right to self defense. They always have those rights, the Declaration of Independence:

​​​​​​"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."​

​​​​​​"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

If MAGA massacred a bunch of Americans to replace our leader I would not have an obligation to support them, so if Jan 6 was actually a coup with 100+ dead people would you tell Americans to obey Trump? Oh look, evidence the west and Kiev never intended to support Minsk, so NOBODY supported it. The people of the Donbas did and if Putin was running their elections then he did too, yes, no? But Azov never left, they were told to leave and they didn't. ​

No matter what you think about the removal of Viktor Yanukovych from his office,
the fact remains that Volodomyr Selenskyj came to office by general and fair elections.
(especially they were much fairer / less fishy than the election that brought Yanukovytch to power)

The people in Donbass and Luhansk would have had every opportunity to take part in this election as well

[Berzerker]

Total Nonsense. They impeached him because he tried to extort Ukraine. FACT.
The rest of your statement has nothing to do with the impeachment. It was all about the conversation.
But I guess the Maga Cult has an answer for EVERY crime Trump has committed.

By using weapons shipments... Interfering in the war. Earlier Trump ended Obama's policy of arming ISIS for regime change in Syria and agreed to let Russia save Assad so Mad Dog Mattis resigned. When Trump started making waves in Ukraine they impeached him. Vindman was upset because Trump was 'tying' weapons to an investigation. They invented Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan when Trump was dealing with the Taliban. I see a pattern, powerful people get very upset by peace. Senate Democrats extorted Ukraine to investigate Trump over bogus Clinton allegations when we know Biden's kid worked for Burisma and Joe fired the investigating cop. I think that should have been investigated.

[Berzerker]

They were paid Putin proxies and nothing more.

Millions of people living there 'voted' on the coup, they overwhelmingly opposed it so they were attacked by Kiev. Little green men did not fabricate that opposition. The people of the Donbas turned their guns westward when right wing militias showed up to enforce the coup, they did not shoot Russians coming from the east later. I'll trust their assessment of the situation, their actions tell me who they see as the aggressor.

[Berzerker]

We are the arsonists... Just follow our footprints around the world

[Berzerker]

Trump had influence when he was president and it aint no coincidence the war machine did all it could to get rid of him. That was the coup and Jan 6 was the protest in response. Our own bureaucracies rig our elections and complain about Russian troll farms buying click bait ads on social media.

[Berzerker]

So what? Coups don't grant license for everyone to secede. Where the hell did you ever hear otherwise? OMG, it wasn't even a coup that removed their president it was a constitutionally dodgy removal. Dodgy, not illegal. Seceding from Ukraine OTOH...that was illegal.

People who declare independence in response to a coup, or anything else really, are starting a war Berz. Seizing public buildings with armed force is an act of war.

Minsk didn't matter. Minsk doesn't trump domestic law and international law regards treaties not upheld by at least two parties as invalid anyway. NOBODY anywhere followed through on Minsk. It was a dead letter. Ukraine delivered plenty on Minsk. Russia and the separatists...nada.

Zelensky tried to change that. Azov didn't stop him. Putin stopped him.

There is video of Zelensky visiting Azov in the Donbas telling them to give up their position in accordance with Minsk, they declined and he left. And we know from western leaders Minsk was merely a delaying tactic to give Ukraine time to build its military. Thats why they kept the war going, it would look bad if peace broke out and the USA and Kiev restarted the war years later. Good reason for inflated military budgets too, peace makes war profiteers unhappy.

The constitutionally dodgy (illegal?) removal followed the coup - the coup was the massacre to frame the leader to facilitate his removal. Did BLM declare war when they seized or destroyed public property? It was a protest, they were protesting the coup. At least their cause was real, BLM had to lie about cops to rile the masses. BLM lied and people died... Helluva epithet, RIP BLM. Did the people in the Donbas destroy neighborhoods or just seize town hall? People have the right to secede. If their govt is toppled by fascists in a coup they have the right to resist and they have the right to self defense. They always have those rights, the Declaration of Independence:

​​​​​​"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."​

​​​​​​"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

If MAGA massacred a bunch of Americans to replace our leader I would not have an obligation to support them, so if Jan 6 was actually a coup with 100+ dead people would you tell Americans to obey Trump? Oh look, evidence the west and Kiev never intended to support Minsk, so NOBODY supported it. The people of the Donbas did and if Putin was running their elections then he did too, yes, no? But Azov never left, they were told to leave and they didn't. ​

[pchang]

We should be clear that extorting foreign countries is complete legal and done all the time when it is in furtherance of US national interests. Trump's extortion was illegal because it was detrimental to US national interests and only in furtherance of his own personal interests.

[Ming]

They impeached him for interfering with their war. Before he made that request Senate Democrats extorted the Ukraine govt to investigate Trump over the allegations coming from Clinton, allegations Brennan had told Obama were fictitious.

Total Nonsense. They impeached him because he tried to extort Ukraine. FACT.
The rest of your statement has nothing to do with the impeachment. It was all about the conversation.
But I guess the Maga Cult has an answer for EVERY crime Trump has committed.

[pchang]

You are delusional if you think Trump had any influence on Putin’s decision to invade in Feb. 2022.

[pchang]

Because it aligns with his desires and makes him feel better about himself.

[Berzerker]

He cared enough to avoid this war

[Berzerker]

Exactly... they impeached him for trying to extort the Ukraine government into doing his PERSONAL bidding in trying to take down a political rival. He didn't give a rat's ass about Ukraine, or it's people... JUST HIMSELF.

They impeached him for interfering with their war. Before he made that request Senate Democrats extorted the Ukraine govt to investigate Trump over the allegations coming from Clinton, allegations Brennan had told Obama were fictitious.

[Geronimo]

https://youtu.be/GIBrR1agjrA

2015 NYT says Ukraine has a Nazi problem, 2022 Azov is celebrated

OMG so what?

I see your jimmy dorn video and offer you a 2022 NYT article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/russia-fascism-ukraine-putin.html

The problem with justifying the secession of the Donbas as appropriate because Ukraine was "Nazi" is that right from the very start the Separatists and their Russian backers were filled with fascists. It's perfectly reasonable to support the likes of Azov vs an expansionist Russian state, Especially if Azov is seen over and over moving against armed fascist led organizations and not acting against civillians. Nazi is as Nazi does Berz.

Maybe you'd find this article to be an eye opener.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/ukraines-far-right-loses-big-europes-russian-backed-fascists-make-major-gains/

The fact is Putin has actually always seen foreign fascists and definitely Russian fascists as useful idiots. The only time the Russian fascist annual "Russian March" was ever denied permission to organize parades was in 2020 - due to covid.

When Putin decided Ukrainian "fascism" would be the lynchpin of his Ukraine policy propaganda he immediately set out re-writing history to make the narrative work. He wasn't interested in any of that before the 'coup'.

https://time.com/3545855/russia-ukraine-war-history/

Why do you trust people obviously relying on that narrative?

The bottom line is that while Azov was a piece of Ukraine's response to the Donbas secessions all of the Separatist forces were founded by lovely fascists like Pavel Gubarev and when these useful idiots proved insufficiently useful Putin directly replaced them with people like Moscow native known FSB agent Igor Girkin.

The Separatist armed forces were founded by fascists who attacked the people of the Donbas and directly ran all subsequent "elections" with their armed nazi thugs. Why do you think the involvement of Azov in resisting them makes it ok for the Nazi Separatists foreign backer Russia to invade Ukraine?

Russia has had RT paying conservative personalities to push their message in the US since 2014. You Berz are evidence of how successful that strategy can be.

[BeBMan]

Fighting fire with fire or something.