Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Geronimo]

https://youtu.be/GIBrR1agjrA

2015 NYT says Ukraine has a Nazi problem, 2022 Azov is celebrated

OMG so what?

I see your jimmy dorn video and offer you a 2022 NYT article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/russia-fascism-ukraine-putin.html

The problem with justifying the secession of the Donbas as appropriate because Ukraine was "Nazi" is that right from the very start the Separatists and their Russian backers were filled with fascists. It's perfectly reasonable to support the likes of Azov vs an expansionist Russian state, Especially if Azov is seen over and over moving against armed fascist led organizations and not acting against civillians. Nazi is as Nazi does Berz.

Maybe you'd find this article to be an eye opener.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/ukraines-far-right-loses-big-europes-russian-backed-fascists-make-major-gains/

The fact is Putin has actually always seen foreign fascists and definitely Russian fascists as useful idiots. The only time the Russian fascist annual "Russian March" was ever denied permission to organize parades was in 2020 - due to covid.

When Putin decided Ukrainian "fascism" would be the lynchpin of his Ukraine policy propaganda he immediately set out re-writing history to make the narrative work. He wasn't interested in any of that before the 'coup'.

https://time.com/3545855/russia-ukraine-war-history/

Why do you trust people obviously relying on that narrative?

The bottom line is that while Azov was a piece of Ukraine's response to the Donbas secessions all of the Separatist forces were founded by lovely fascists like Pavel Gubarev and when these useful idiots proved insufficiently useful Putin directly replaced them with people like Moscow native known FSB agent Igor Girkin.

The Separatist armed forces were founded by fascists who attacked the people of the Donbas and directly ran all subsequent "elections" with their armed nazi thugs. Why do you think the involvement of Azov in resisting them makes it ok for the Nazi Separatists foreign backer Russia to invade Ukraine?

Russia has had RT paying conservative personalities to push their message in the US since 2014. You Berz are evidence of how successful that strategy can be.

[BeBMan]

Fighting fire with fire or something.

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/GIBrR1agjrA

2015 NYT says Ukraine has a Nazi problem, 2022 Azov is celebrated

[N35t0r]

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

The people who got attacked were actually violently occupying Lugansk and Donetsk, and had Russian special forces and equipment alongside them.

You will also have to provide proof that most of the people killed since have been pro-Russian civilians.

[N35t0r]

The areas in Ukraine that have lost irrigation are much larger than the total agricultural land in Crimea, and the expected economic downfall is around three times larger than the total agricultural output of Crimea before the Russian occupation (so much greater disparity now).

You say that Russia couldn't possibly have blown the dam because it cuts water to Crimea, but the damage to Ukraine is not only much larger, it is also even greater when you compare it as a proportion of the Ukrainian economy to what its effect on Crimea is as a proportion of the Russian economy.

[Dinner]

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

They were paid Putin proxies and nothing more.

[Geronimo]

Why did they 'separate'? They didn't support the coup. Protesters seizing public buildings in response to a coup is a protest, I dont know who or when they declared independence because the Donbas agreed to Minsk and that was a compromise to stay in Ukraine. If Russia was the villain why didn't the people of the Donbas turn their guns eastward in 2014 and help Azov repel the Russian invasion? They didn't do that, they were fighting Azov and asking Russia for help.

So what? Coups don't grant license for everyone to secede. Where the hell did you ever hear otherwise? OMG, it wasn't even a coup that removed their president it was a constitutionally dodgy removal. Dodgy, not illegal. Seceding from Ukraine OTOH...that was illegal.

People who declare independence in response to a coup, or anything else really, are starting a war Berz. Seizing public buildings with armed force is an act of war.

Minsk didn't matter. Minsk doesn't trump domestic law and international law regards treaties not upheld by at least two parties as invalid anyway. NOBODY anywhere followed through on Minsk. It was a dead letter. Ukraine delivered plenty on Minsk. Russia and the separatists...nada.

Zelensky tried to change that. Azov didn't stop him. Putin stopped him.

[Geronimo]

Bull****. They attacked first. Nobody "attacked them" because "they didn't support the coup". Arming yourself, declaring independence and seizing public buildings is attacking Ukraine. Ukraine sending armed thugs to take back the public buildings isn't "attacking them", let along "attacking them for not supporting the coup". It's retaking seized public buildings.

[Ming]

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden.

Exactly... they impeached him for trying to extort the Ukraine government into doing his PERSONAL bidding in trying to take down a political rival. He didn't give a rat's ass about Ukraine, or it's people... JUST HIMSELF.

[Berzerker]

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

Why did they 'separate'? They didn't support the coup. Protesters seizing public buildings in response to a coup is a protest, I dont know who or when they declared independence because the Donbas agreed to Minsk and that was a compromise to stay in Ukraine. If Russia was the villain why didn't the people of the Donbas turn their guns eastward in 2014 and help Azov repel the Russian invasion? They didn't do that, they were fighting Azov and asking Russia for help.

[Berzerker]

That's not why he was impeached
Can I have some of what you are smoking.

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden. Apparently Congress declared war on the people living there without making it official because I thought the Prez runs foreign policy.

[Geronimo]

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

Total bull-crap. Nobody was attacked for "not supporting the coup". Armed separatists were attacked for seizing public buildings and declaring independence. Why do you repeat this crap?

[Berzerker]

That's not why he was impeached
Can I have some of what you are smoking.

They impeached him for delaying weapons to the war in the Donbas to get an investigation of Burisma and Biden. Apparently Congress declared war on the people living there without making it official because I thought the Prez runs foreign policy.

[Berzerker]

So you're OK with genocide being perpetrated and don't think it's OK to help them as long as at least one of the people being genocided is far-right. Gotcha.

They got our help in 2014 and attacked eastern Ukrainians for protesting the coup. Most of the people killed since the 2014 war are eastern Ukrainians with Russian background and we started it to weaken Russia. That has back fired so magnificently only Brandon or Clouseau could pull it off. Chunks of the planet have had enough of our sanctions and bullying and are forming their own trade blocs. If this was a genocide we'd see it in the civilian death toll from Russian forces. Washington and Kiev attacked the Donbas for not supporting the coup. That fact is inescapable.

[Berzerker]

I'd say that the flooded area was the hardest hit... After all Crimea managed fine both before the canal was built and after it was shut off once Russia illegally annexed Crimea.

Or would you rather have your house flooded than your tap water turned off?

The flooded area got hit by water, not a loss of water.