Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[BlackCat]

Never mind how the Nazis slaughtered a bunch of people and attacked protesters across the country

Please try to document that without using russian sources.

[Berzerker]

No matter what you think about the removal of Viktor Yanukovych from his office,
the fact remains that Volodomyr Selenskyj came to office by general and fair elections.
(especially they were much fairer / less fishy than the election that brought Yanukovytch to power)

The people in Donbass and Luhansk would have had every opportunity to take part in this election as well

Oh yeah, they had a coup followed by a fair election. Never mind how the Nazis slaughtered a bunch of people and attacked protesters across the country, that had no effect on the political process. The war prevented millions from voting and the guy they did elect was just couped, tell them about fair elections and democracy.

[Donegeal]

Nothing to do with this thread, but just out of curiosity: Years (and years)² ago I think I remember you saying or indicating you were a Republican. Do you still consider yourself a Republican or has the party left you/you left the party? Heck, I don't even know how they do it in Illinois. Do they require you to register with a party in order to vote in their primaries (they don't in Wisconsin)?

[Jon Miller]

But at the time there was no proposal from the Republicans. About the time there was a proposal, Biden agreed to negotiate.

Also, can you give an example where the Democrats extracted concessions from the Republicans in order to raise the debt ceiling? Like the Democrats would not raise it unless the Republicans gave them some policies or spending they wanted?

JM

[Dinner]

Biden literally refused to negotiate ANY deal for months. He said nothing but a "clean" raise was acceptable as a negotiating tactic. Republicans made very clear they wanted big spending cuts and, as a tactic, Biden decided to wait until the last second to allow any negotiations. FACT!

[Dinner]

Fair points. Now, when Biden told the Ukrainian government to fire the special prosecutor looking into corruption of the Ukrainian state oil company which has hired Hunter Biden as protection despite having zero qualifications or he would cancel all U.S. foreign aid to Ukraine... Was that some how different? We had Joe Biden using official acts to benefit his family's bribery schemes. It seems the same self interest to me.

[pchang]

Negotiate with what? McCarthy did not have a plan or the rest of his caucus lined up until very late.

[BeBMan]

USSR-1945: the country that triumphed over fascism. Russia-2022: the country of triumphant fascism.” This was the brusque placard in the hands of the man who stood, in late April 2022, in front of the tricolor-wrapped tribunes, raised before the Kremlin wall for the upcoming celebration of Russia’s victory over fascism back in May 1945. The gaunt, white-haired man with a neatly trimmed mustache was Oleg Orlov. When the Russian police “admitted” him just a few minutes later, this was his fifth detention since February 24, when Russia invaded Ukraine.

from: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06...ing-it-fascism

[Dinner]

It is something Democrats themselves also do so stop lying and pretending it is partisan. What the debt limit negotiations are is a chance for the part which controls part of Congress to extract concessions for must pass legislation. Both sides do it and the country is better when the two parties are forced to compromise.

BTW it was Biden who spent months simply refusing to negotiate preferring to play chicken.

[Ming]

The whole debt ceiling crisis was a joke as it was the Republicans that didn't want to pay many bills that were created due to their actions.

[Proteus_MST]

The weapons shipment was a threat... extortion to have them do HIS PERSONAL BIDDING. FACT!
The rest of you statement is just pure maga alt right nonsense.
The only pattern you see is what the alt right is lying about.
You keep claiming that the dems are the pro war party... but which party wants to keep raising the Pentagon budget and which party wants to reduce it.
Oh, that's right. Trump and his cronies in the Republican party are the leaders of the big war/defense machine. Every time the Dems even hint at lowering military spending, the Repubs go nuts.

The Republicans also are shining paragons for fiscal responsibility ...
but only if a Democrat is PotUS ... with a Republican as PotUS they approve new debts that amounts to trillions

[Ming]

By using weapons shipments... Interfering in the war. Earlier Trump ended Obama's policy of arming ISIS for regime change in Syria and agreed to let Russia save Assad so Mad Dog Mattis resigned. When Trump started making waves in Ukraine they impeached him. Vindman was upset because Trump was 'tying' weapons to an investigation. They invented Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan when Trump was dealing with the Taliban. I see a pattern, powerful people get very upset by peace. Senate Democrats extorted Ukraine to investigate Trump over bogus Clinton allegations when we know Biden's kid worked for Burisma and Joe fired the investigating cop. I think that should have been investigated.

The weapons shipment was a threat... extortion to have them do HIS PERSONAL BIDDING. FACT!
The rest of you statement is just pure maga alt right nonsense.
The only pattern you see is what the alt right is lying about.
You keep claiming that the dems are the pro war party... but which party wants to keep raising the Pentagon budget and which party wants to reduce it.
Oh, that's right. Trump and his cronies in the Republican party are the leaders of the big war/defense machine. Every time the Dems even hint at lowering military spending, the Repubs go nuts.

[Proteus_MST]

There is video of Zelensky visiting Azov in the Donbas telling them to give up their position in accordance with Minsk, they declined and he left. And we know from western leaders Minsk was merely a delaying tactic to give Ukraine time to build its military. Thats why they kept the war going, it would look bad if peace broke out and the USA and Kiev restarted the war years later. Good reason for inflated military budgets too, peace makes war profiteers unhappy.

The constitutionally dodgy (illegal?) removal followed the coup - the coup was the massacre to frame the leader to facilitate his removal. Did BLM declare war when they seized or destroyed public property? It was a protest, they were protesting the coup. At least their cause was real, BLM had to lie about cops to rile the masses. BLM lied and people died... Helluva epithet, RIP BLM. Did the people in the Donbas destroy neighborhoods or just seize town hall? People have the right to secede. If their govt is toppled by fascists in a coup they have the right to resist and they have the right to self defense. They always have those rights, the Declaration of Independence:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

If MAGA massacred a bunch of Americans to replace our leader I would not have an obligation to support them, so if Jan 6 was actually a coup with 100+ dead people would you tell Americans to obey Trump? Oh look, evidence the west and Kiev never intended to support Minsk, so NOBODY supported it. The people of the Donbas did and if Putin was running their elections then he did too, yes, no? But Azov never left, they were told to leave and they didn't.

No matter what you think about the removal of Viktor Yanukovych from his office,
the fact remains that Volodomyr Selenskyj came to office by general and fair elections.
(especially they were much fairer / less fishy than the election that brought Yanukovytch to power)

The people in Donbass and Luhansk would have had every opportunity to take part in this election as well

[Berzerker]

Total Nonsense. They impeached him because he tried to extort Ukraine. FACT.
The rest of your statement has nothing to do with the impeachment. It was all about the conversation.
But I guess the Maga Cult has an answer for EVERY crime Trump has committed.

By using weapons shipments... Interfering in the war. Earlier Trump ended Obama's policy of arming ISIS for regime change in Syria and agreed to let Russia save Assad so Mad Dog Mattis resigned. When Trump started making waves in Ukraine they impeached him. Vindman was upset because Trump was 'tying' weapons to an investigation. They invented Russian bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan when Trump was dealing with the Taliban. I see a pattern, powerful people get very upset by peace. Senate Democrats extorted Ukraine to investigate Trump over bogus Clinton allegations when we know Biden's kid worked for Burisma and Joe fired the investigating cop. I think that should have been investigated.

[Berzerker]

They were paid Putin proxies and nothing more.

Millions of people living there 'voted' on the coup, they overwhelmingly opposed it so they were attacked by Kiev. Little green men did not fabricate that opposition. The people of the Donbas turned their guns westward when right wing militias showed up to enforce the coup, they did not shoot Russians coming from the east later. I'll trust their assessment of the situation, their actions tell me who they see as the aggressor.