Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Ming]

So I guess you think the Russians have the high ground now as they kill and rape the people you claim they are fighting for.

[Berzerker]

In what possible way will the "nazis" "rule" anyone after a Ukrainian victory, let alone "nazis" that "attacked them" for 10 years? Specifically who are the nazis? You've claimed the Nazis are Azov. Zelensky wanted peace you say but Azov overruled him and they are Nazis! Berz...Azov is at about 900 troops now. *None* of the officers were in or on record as having even voted for the farthest right party in Ukraine. How in the hell will they "rule" anyone? If zelensky can survive Russian assassinations there is no way he will somehow be beholden to Azov, let alone to imaginary "Nazi's Azov.

Also the Russian soldiers *were* shot at by people living in the Donbas each time when Russia moved more of them into the Donbas until the new Russian management killed, jailed, disappeared or cowed them into submission.

Finally what does "supporting" a coup mean? Refraining from declaring independence with an armed insurrection? Are you saying that is now acceptable by every province in Niger (where an actual coup has occurred) to declare independence with armed insurrection and get annexed by various neighboring countries? The "coup" makes that all fair game?

The same way they ruled after the 2014 coup, with terror. But much worse, we will put Nazis in charge of people they consider traitors following a 10 year war. The Nazis wear tattoos, they dont hide what they think (unless they're getting awards from Jon Stewart). Azov is a specific group of Nazis that formed when eastern Ukrainians didn't support the coup. The Ukrainian right wing is much larger, but Azov is the poster boy for Ukrainian Nazism (google their founder). The media had little problem calling them Nazis before 2022, its only recently they whitewashed white supremacy. Well, not here... white supremacy is public enemy # 1 in the USA, arming Nazis to attack people armed with nukes half way around the world is our civic duty.

Yes, Zelensky campaigned on peace and won a landslide. When he showed up in the Donbas to inform Azov they had to vacate their forward positions as part of the deal he was told to gtfo and he did. They got it recorded for posterity, I saw the film of him trying to play president and learning from a low ranked Azov soldier he wasn't in charge. Course the reason Azov could do that is because we had their backs, not Zelensky or the Ukrainian people. Democracy is just another lie we tell the world when we hire fanatics to kill for us. How would you know the voting records of Azov officers? The Russians aint trying to kill Zelensky, he's in more danger from us and Azov. And you're wrong, Zelensky has been kissing Azov butt for years. Zelensky fired his friend and advisor for upsetting Azov.

I dont know enough about the Niger coup to make comparisons. I do know the people of Crimea and the Donbas had the moral high ground in 2014, not the Nazis we sent to kill them.

[Berzerker]

Actually the vote was illegal (and irrelevant), the coup was the massacre of protesters to blame the leader. I dont think they want to be ruled by Moscow or Kiev but Russia's the only one helping them. So, you want to give those Nazis weapons to kill people and the Russians are evil for helping the victims.

[Geronimo]

Who do you call when Nato is arming the Nazis to kill ethnic Russians and who is giving us the majority of reporting? So, what did the UN have to say about Nato arming Nazis to kill eastern Ukrainians? Its been about a decade now, any word? The UN is an international body, it typically doesn't address what govts do to their own people. Didn't the ICC accuse Putin of a war crime because Russian soldiers evacuated special needs kids from a Ukrainian advance?

Berz...if they were arming them "to kill ethnic Russians" why the hell didn't that happen?? Why did so many fewer ethnic Russians die from 2013 to February 2021 than have died since? If they were shelling cities to kill ethnic Russians, why were so vastly many more ethnic Russian homes destroyed from March 2021 to March 2022 than from January 2013 to January 2021? Why if they wanted to kill ethnic Russians did they pour the overwhelming majority of their shells into the closed Donetsk Airport and into rural battlefields than into Donetsk itself or at least ethnic Russian towns of any size?

If Russia Evacuated kids from "a Ukrainian advance" they'd be safe back in Western Ukraine with family members via Belarus, Turkey, the Baltics, or any number of other routes to get them home.

[Geronimo]

The US and its allies recruited, funded and armed fanatical Muslims to wage a proxy war against Russia in Afghanistan. But no, not really... Americans would never dream up such a strategy. Carter's advisor said that was the plan. Why would the Taliban - religious zealots - inherit a country conquered by religious zealots flocking to the call and dime of Uncle Sam? I never mentioned Korea but the war in Vietnam stemmed from France trying to hang onto it after WWII. The natives were restless and war eventually drove the French into retreat with pleas for our help. Not exactly the moral high ground for us to wage a war killing millions.

If the Donbas and Crimea dont want to be ruled by Azov should we force them? That wont happen of course, we wont risk the US army to compel eastern Ukrainians to live under western Ukrainian rule. What intervention specifically were you comparing Ukraine to for this double standard you see? If Russia toppled the Mexican govt and sent an army to attack people south of our border I would oppose arming Russia - thats consistent. How about you? I defined coup as what now? I didn't support Assad or his dad, I'm opposed to arming terrorists to destroy Syria... or does the end justify the means?

So now you discover nuance eh? Yes, Soviet Afghanistan was a proxy war. not a 3/3 US war as you constantly claim. Most important of all, the US did not start any part or stage of the soviet Afghanistan war. Soviets and locals started all of the fighting. The US offered assistance with training and weapons that, adjusting for inflation (~$47 billion USD 2023), was actually similar to the USSR level of military aid to Vietnam (about $44 billion USD 2023). Actually, 85% of millitary aid to the mujahedeen came from non US sources. So how in the hell do you ascribe the casualties in both wars as 3/3 belonging to the US?

If the Donbas and Crimea don't want to be rule by Azov they are lucky that Azov has never ruled them or anybody else.

You offered a special interpretation of coup as any change in power that occurs even in part due to a violent act. You even interpret that as meaning that if a president if framed for a sniper attack on civilians and loses power then any government that later takes power is a coup. I'd say that's a very special definition of coup.

Whether or not you support Assad you can't claim that a coup absolves Russia of all culpability in starting a war in the Donbas while pretending that the US owns 3/3 of casualties in Syria for a civil war that erupted when Assad assumed power in Syria through ongoing violence.

Be consistent Berz. That's all I ask. And no, I don't mean be consistently inconsistent.

[PLATO]

Completely nonsensical and inaccurate. Not to mention that the "coup" has been repeatedly shown to be debunked...most especially by a LEGAL parliamentary vote. It is not obvious that they want to be ruled by Russia, but that is not the point. They are part of Ukraine and need to work within that system. The whole Nazi thing has also been repeatedly debunked. Can you not learn?

[Geronimo]

And let the Nazis rule the people they've spent a decade attacking. Sounds like good times. What if the people of Crimea and the Donbas dont want Russia to leave? At this point aint it obvious they dont want to be ruled by Kiev? When Russia "invaded" the people of the Donbas didn't start shooting at them, they were already shooting at the militias sent by Kiev. Now why is that? Russia was helping the people of eastern Ukraine expel the Nazi occupiers on their lands. One more thing, it was a coup. "Legally" the people in Ukraine (and the rest of the world) had no obligation to support it and the ones who didn't were attacked.

In what possible way will the "nazis" "rule" anyone after a Ukrainian victory, let alone "nazis" that "attacked them" for 10 years? Specifically who are the nazis? You've claimed the Nazis are Azov. Zelensky wanted peace you say but Azov overruled him and they are Nazis! Berz...Azov is at about 900 troops now. *None* of the officers were in or on record as having even voted for the farthest right party in Ukraine. How in the hell will they "rule" anyone? If zelensky can survive Russian assassinations there is no way he will somehow be beholden to Azov, let alone to imaginary "Nazi's Azov.

Also the Russian soldiers *were* shot at by people living in the Donbas each time when Russia moved more of them into the Donbas until the new Russian management killed, jailed, disappeared or cowed them into submission.

Finally what does "supporting" a coup mean? Refraining from declaring independence with an armed insurrection? Are you saying that is now acceptable by every province in Niger (where an actual coup has occurred) to declare independence with armed insurrection and get annexed by various neighboring countries? The "coup" makes that all fair game?

[Berzerker]

Yes. Going into a nation because some people are accused to be Nazis can not be normalized. If some people are Nazis, and they are doing a genocide or something, then you bring it up at the UN or ICC and get international support. You don't just attack the nation and act in every way as a belligerent. The majority of the reporting says that Russia is engaging in various war crimes, and that fits what Russia has also claimed.

JM

Who do you call when Nato is arming the Nazis to kill ethnic Russians and who is giving us the majority of reporting? So, what did the UN have to say about Nato arming Nazis to kill eastern Ukrainians? Its been about a decade now, any word? The UN is an international body, it typically doesn't address what govts do to their own people. Didn't the ICC accuse Putin of a war crime because Russian soldiers evacuated special needs kids from a Ukrainian advance?

[Berzerker]

Continually amazed that Ukraine's legally recognized borders (including by Russia) are continually being ignored by the "who armed who" crowd. Russia is guilty...pure and simple. The solution is for Russia to withdraw to its internationally recognized borders...pure and simple.

Once this is done, then discussions on any other issues can begin. Until then, the occupiers must be expelled.

And let the Nazis rule the people they've spent a decade attacking. Sounds like good times. What if the people of Crimea and the Donbas dont want Russia to leave? At this point aint it obvious they dont want to be ruled by Kiev? When Russia "invaded" the people of the Donbas didn't start shooting at them, they were already shooting at the militias sent by Kiev. Now why is that? Russia was helping the people of eastern Ukraine expel the Nazi occupiers on their lands. One more thing, it was a coup. "Legally" the people in Ukraine (and the rest of the world) had no obligation to support it and the ones who didn't were attacked.

[-Jrabbit]

Because Putin's yes-man minions assured him it would be a 3-day ride to Kiev, where the Russian troops would be welcomed as heroes.
And Vlad is so isolated, he believed it.

[Ming]

If Nazi's are the issue, then somebody should invade the US, because the Republican Party is becoming the party for Nazi's.

And yeah... listening to how Russia is there to help "their people" is a total farce considering they are killing and raping them.

[Jon Miller]

Yes. Going into a nation because some people are accused to be Nazis can not be normalized. If some people are Nazis, and they are doing a genocide or something, then you bring it up at the UN or ICC and get international support. You don't just attack the nation and act in every way as a belligerent. The majority of the reporting says that Russia is engaging in various war crimes, and that fits what Russia has also claimed.

JM

[PLATO]

Continually amazed that Ukraine's legally recognized borders (including by Russia) are continually being ignored by the "who armed who" crowd. Russia is guilty...pure and simple. The solution is for Russia to withdraw to its internationally recognized borders...pure and simple.

Once this is done, then discussions on any other issues can begin. Until then, the occupiers must be expelled.

[Berzerker]

Azov attacked the Donbas with our weapons, Putin is irrelevant

[Berzerker]

Putin and Biden arming Nazis...which one did you vote for?