Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[N35t0r]

good thing I don't call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved.

I don't even see a hint of language to the effect of "a practical end that had no other way to be achieved".

If you can achieve whatever purpose without the killing, then the killing isn't really 'for a practical end'...

You say that killing with a practical end in mind is not as despicable as killing just for the sake of killing, but if that practical end can be easily achieved without (as much) killing, then that killing is just for the sake of killing, just that whoever ordered it is worried about his image.

I don't really see a big difference.

Let's just agree that the Nazi's managed to look somehow even worse than the Stalinists. We can also agree that the scale of the Stalinists crimes was on a level like that of the Nazi's and that if it didn't amount to genocide it was close.

I can agree with this.

[Geronimo]

I agree that the Nazis were a bit worse than Stalin, but to call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved is despicable.

good thing I don't call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved.

I don't even see a hint of language to the effect of "a practical end that had no other way to be achieved".

Let's just agree that the Nazi's managed to look somehow even worse than the Stalinists. We can also agree that the scale of the Stalinists crimes was on a level like that of the Nazi's and that if it didn't amount to genocide it was close.

[Geronimo]

The ends don't justify the means but the ends can give a window to motive and some motives are more depraved than others.

[Egbert]

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

ethnic cleansing using relocation and forced assimilation is a ghastly crime near the bottom but when it was done as part of a vast ruthless campaign to strengthen the state relative to all other components of society that is definitely a notch above vast campaigns to exterminate the victims instead. The same actions motivated purely by hate would also have been worse.

To accept that the end justifies the means is open the gates to every evil if there is some goal, however illusory, that can somehow be framed as desirable.

[N35t0r]

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

I think your analogy is stretching it a lot. The thousands of deaths that resulted from the NKVD resettlements were not unfortunate bad consequences that might have happened, they were an integral part of the plan.

I agree that the Nazis were a bit worse than Stalin, but to call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved is despicable.

[Geronimo]

Oh, I'm sure that the hundreds of thousands that died in the roundups and forced relocations during the dekulakization can rest easier now that there was some sort of practical end to their genocide and russification of the areas they were removed from :rollers:

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

ethnic cleansing using relocation and forced assimilation is a ghastly crime near the bottom but when it was done as part of a vast ruthless campaign to strengthen the state relative to all other components of society that is definitely a notch above vast campaigns to exterminate the victims instead. The same actions motivated purely by hate would also have been worse.

[EPW]

Serb isn't dumb... he's complicit like Adolf Eichmann. We know he works for their government and in something related to security/defense. Let's stop treating him like a clown and more like the war criminal that he is.

[N35t0r]

Serb is correct here. Only the nazis felt it necessary to order brutality for brutality's sake. When Stalin issued brutal commands it was always to serve some practical end...never an end by itself.

Oh, I'm sure that the hundreds of thousands that died in the roundups and forced relocations during the dekulakization can rest easier now that there was some sort of practical end to their genocide and russification of the areas they were removed from :rollers:

[Geronimo]

Thanks for coming back Serb. I'm truly sorry the special operation is such a fustercluck for Russia. On the other hand I definitely don't want to see the Ukrainians and their nazi puppet regime defeated so I suppose my sympathy for Russia's self inflicted plight has serious limitations.

When these annexations have completed is there any legal means for Russia to negotiate an end to the war or will it lock them into permanent war with the Ukrainian state?

[Geronimo]

Oh, really?
Just as "as brutal as"?
Are you fkn nuts? The Nazis have killed 27 million of my people!
And the Soviets were never, never, NEVER as brutal, as Germans were on the Soviet territory!!!

Serb is correct here. Only the nazis felt it necessary to order brutality for brutality's sake. When Stalin issued brutal commands it was always to serve some practical end...never an end by itself.

[N35t0r]

They're now taking soldiers off the borders with the Baltic states to send to fight in Ukraine.

They even sent a torpedo expert from the Baltic first and put him in a tank. No training.

Top-notch military, for sure.

[PLATO]

We are still officially not in war with NATO only because that NATO is a stinking piece of cowardish sh!t to face us directly.

A stupid stinking piece of sh!t, which can think it can hide behind its Ukranian proxy forever!

But that won't help you, idiots!

You will get, what you have deserved at the end of the day!

Fire some missiles at a NATO base (if you have enough left, that is). See for yourselves what cowards NATO is. Go ahead and try it. We are waiting.......



Still waiting.....







Still waiting...............




Yep, Russians are the cowards here.

[N35t0r]

We are still officially not in war with NATO only because that NATO is a stinking piece of cowardish sh!t to face us directly.

A stupid stinking piece of sh!t, which can think it can hide behind its Ukranian proxy forever!

But that won't help you, idiots!

You will get, what you have deserved at the end of the day!

So just like you bravely and openly declared war on the US during Korea and Vietnam?

[PLATO]

You mean like the ones, when Ukranian soldiers are boiling the heads of the Russions POWs?

OMG! I nearly fell out of my chair reading that! You are truly a comedian. At least I hope you are as the only other choice is that you are so dim witted that you would believe that kind of crap. Tell me, do a lot of Russians actually believe that stuff? Good Gosh...no wonder everybody laughs at you guys for stupidity.

[PLATO]

No, they are saying we are at war with NATO now, not just Ukraine.
As for as$ kicking, it's our professional army, which controls 20% of Ukranian territory and utilizes your brainless Nazi puppets with ratio 1 to 10, not yours!

You know how you are not really at war with NATO? It's easy...you are still breathing. Please explain how much of that 20% you have taken in the last 90 days. You attacked a peaceful, unsuspecting country (where most people did not believe their "brothers" would ever truly attack them) with 200,000 fully equipped men. Once Ukraine got its war footing under it and some decent weapons to fight with, Russia hasn't taken sqat!

About what?
A tactical sucess?
You, Westerners, remind my and idiot who creams his pants when scoring a goal, while his team is losing 10-0.

I was actually talking about the way they lie to you when they say they only are taking reservists. BUT, since you want to talk about tactical sucesses, wasn't the Ukraine counterattack a thing of beauty! They captured hundreds of vehicles intact and tons (literally TONS) of supplies and ammunition. One thing is for sure...Russians sure can run when they have too!

My government has made the same mistake as me, because we thought that Ukranian army is still the same as in 2014-2015. It is not. You have trained and supplied your "combat humster" well.
So, fkn what?
We will still win.

I am truly amazed that you can finally admit that the Kremlin seriously miscalculated this war. It is the first step to you understanding the real truth. Serb, you seem like an intelligent guy beneath your obvious Putin indoctrination. Why not start asking yourself the hard questions about what is really happening to Russia right now. It is only citizens like yourself that can make real lasting change. If you truly want your country to be what you think it is, then your people need to change the government.