Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[pchang]

No tattoos in the picture though.

[Serb]

OMG! I nearly fell out of my chair reading that! You are truly a comedian. At least I hope you are as the only other choice is that you are so dim witted that you would believe that kind of crap. Tell me, do a lot of Russians actually believe that stuff? Good Gosh...no wonder everybody laughs at you guys for stupidity.

They don't show you that kind of thing in your media.

The Nazis acts like Nazis, there is nothing new with that.
But, you dimbas$es are living in a phantasy world of your propaganda and never see that.

[Uncle Sparky]

Aye, perhaps this is why 6 billion people of the world prefer Russia over America eh?

I don't know why I needed Serb to explain it.

Corrected.

[EPW]

it did amount to genocide wtf are you talking about? are you some kind of communist?

[Geronimo]

True ... as you can see by Russian treatment of POWs and civilians in the occupied territories.
(which surely goes against lots of rules in the Geneva Conventions)

And by the covert ethnic cleansing that takes place in your provinces
(i.e. primarily drafting ethnic minorities for the war, so those get killed ... and less so "true Russians" )

Aye, perhaps this is why 6 billion people of the world prefer Russia over the West eh?

I don't know why I needed Serb to explain it.

[Proteus_MST]

You are a morons, really!!!

Russia always lives by its own rules only, idiots!
...

True ... as you can see by Russian treatment of POWs and civilians in the occupied territories.
(which surely goes against lots of rules in the Geneva Conventions)

And by the covert ethnic cleansing that takes place in your provinces
(i.e. primarily drafting ethnic minorities for the war, so those get killed ... and less so "true Russians" )

[BeBMan]

"But the Nazis were worse" is a pretty low bar tho.

[N35t0r]

good thing I don't call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved.

I don't even see a hint of language to the effect of "a practical end that had no other way to be achieved".

If you can achieve whatever purpose without the killing, then the killing isn't really 'for a practical end'...

You say that killing with a practical end in mind is not as despicable as killing just for the sake of killing, but if that practical end can be easily achieved without (as much) killing, then that killing is just for the sake of killing, just that whoever ordered it is worried about his image.

I don't really see a big difference.

Let's just agree that the Nazi's managed to look somehow even worse than the Stalinists. We can also agree that the scale of the Stalinists crimes was on a level like that of the Nazi's and that if it didn't amount to genocide it was close.

I can agree with this.

[Geronimo]

I agree that the Nazis were a bit worse than Stalin, but to call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved is despicable.

good thing I don't call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved.

I don't even see a hint of language to the effect of "a practical end that had no other way to be achieved".

Let's just agree that the Nazi's managed to look somehow even worse than the Stalinists. We can also agree that the scale of the Stalinists crimes was on a level like that of the Nazi's and that if it didn't amount to genocide it was close.

[Geronimo]

The ends don't justify the means but the ends can give a window to motive and some motives are more depraved than others.

[Egbert]

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

ethnic cleansing using relocation and forced assimilation is a ghastly crime near the bottom but when it was done as part of a vast ruthless campaign to strengthen the state relative to all other components of society that is definitely a notch above vast campaigns to exterminate the victims instead. The same actions motivated purely by hate would also have been worse.

To accept that the end justifies the means is open the gates to every evil if there is some goal, however illusory, that can somehow be framed as desirable.

[N35t0r]

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

I think your analogy is stretching it a lot. The thousands of deaths that resulted from the NKVD resettlements were not unfortunate bad consequences that might have happened, they were an integral part of the plan.

I agree that the Nazis were a bit worse than Stalin, but to call Stalin's killings just an unhappy side effect of a practical end that had no other way to be achieved is despicable.

[Geronimo]

Oh, I'm sure that the hundreds of thousands that died in the roundups and forced relocations during the dekulakization can rest easier now that there was some sort of practical end to their genocide and russification of the areas they were removed from :rollers:

I would. If some depraved POS kills a family member because they want to spite me that's going to be worse than the POS that killed them because a mugging went bad.

it's just than in both scenarios the crimes are totally unacceptable. That doesn't mean they are equivalent

ethnic cleansing using relocation and forced assimilation is a ghastly crime near the bottom but when it was done as part of a vast ruthless campaign to strengthen the state relative to all other components of society that is definitely a notch above vast campaigns to exterminate the victims instead. The same actions motivated purely by hate would also have been worse.

[EPW]

Serb isn't dumb... he's complicit like Adolf Eichmann. We know he works for their government and in something related to security/defense. Let's stop treating him like a clown and more like the war criminal that he is.

[N35t0r]

Serb is correct here. Only the nazis felt it necessary to order brutality for brutality's sake. When Stalin issued brutal commands it was always to serve some practical end...never an end by itself.

Oh, I'm sure that the hundreds of thousands that died in the roundups and forced relocations during the dekulakization can rest easier now that there was some sort of practical end to their genocide and russification of the areas they were removed from :rollers: