Originally posted by MOBIUS
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Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia
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"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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Originally posted by MOBIUS View PostPerhaps it's you guys being fed US propaganda, just like all the lies that emerged about Iraq like WMDs etc. How many of the usual suspects here got sucked in by that, I know I certainly wasn't. So yeah, my views have been remarkably consistent, actually.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
Pretty sure the consistent view here would be: imperialist powers shouldn't invade other countries and kill a bunch of people. That was my view in 2003 and my view now.
When Ukraine ultimately agrees to promise not to join NATO, people are going to wonder why they didn't simply do that in the first place...?
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Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
Not invade Ukraine and kill a bunch of people?
(The UK rewarded Putin with a state visit where he got to meet the Queen)
Putin used the same tactics on Aleppo in 2016...
I ask you again, what else was Putin going to do...?
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Originally posted by N35t0r View PostNATO expanding was a consequence of Russian imperialist aggression, not the other way round. The Baltics and the Warsaw pact readily remembered Moscow's yoke, and applied to join NATO as soon as they could.
Your post here reads something like 'the Soviet Union is responsible for Pinochet's coup of Allende in Chile. They knew America was the USA's backyard and still gave him support.' It's excusing a bully, and also disgustingly treats people that aren't a major world power as incapable of having agency.
The Warsaw Pact was created as a response to the creation of NATO, not the other way around.
Again, romantic wishful thinking of 'playing fair' in the face of realism - with the added hypocrisy that probably the biggest 'bully' in the world is in fact the United States...
Austria used to be divided in the same way that Germany was, however the Soviets pulled out once they got the assurances they wanted from the Austrians. Finland was able to exist peacefully in the Soviet's backyard because they didn't take sides. Even the events in Hungary and Czechoslovakia are more nuanced than are generally reported in the West... Etc. etc.
You guys need a history lesson that doesn't just begin with 'Putin invaded Ukraine, he's teh evil!'
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Originally posted by MOBIUS View Post
What Russian imperialist aggression? I think you'll find that NATO expanded when Russia was too weak to do anything about it, not the other way around.
NATO didn't expand in Eastern Europe because it invaded all those countries. It expanded because all those countries knew Russia would want them under their heel sooner or later... And they didn't exactly enjoy the last time they were.
Indifference is Bliss
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No one has ever adequately explained to me how countries voluntarily deciding to join the "please don't invade me, Russia" defensive pact hurts Russia (other than making it harder for Russia to invade countries).Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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