Prediction Thread: When Will Russia Conquer Ukraine

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes and we already know how to bring down the bairaktars.(and then fishing them off the aegean)
W're not teling Russia though

[BlackCat]

I have a cousin in Naval Intelligence that once told me that the Slava class were the only Russian ships that the West was truly concerned about. So much for Naval Intelligence when a third rate home grown cruise missile can sink one. The ship was pretty good I guess, but is probably another example of terribly trained Russian military.

Well, the russian navy hasn't done well for several centuries - the swedes has beaten them several times in ancient times, the japanese did naughty things to them back in 1905, no real mention of their activities neither in WWI nor WWII, a number of nuclear subs that got in serious trouble and then this.

They are after all pretty land bound just like the yankies - after all, both the danes and swedes have "sunk" several american carriers.

[BlackCat]

Forgot one thing - it seems that the russian defense ministry are pretty pissed - they now say that the russian army will make missile attacks on ukrainian government buildings if the neonazist ukraininan air forces doesn't stop attacking russian war factories placed in russia.

Technically, the rusians have already done that for a couple of months but it's a bit interesting that it seems that the ukraininans are able to hit targets in russia and get out safe.

[Bereta_Eder]

they have attacked inside russia (which I think is both great and hilarious)

[giblets]

They are after all pretty land bound just like the yankies - after all, both the danes and swedes have "sunk" several american carriers.

What the hell are you talking about? Simulations?

[BeBMan]

Afaik it's about training excercises where submarines managed to move into attack position vs. carriers undetected.

In other naval news:

Russia's sunken warship may have been carrying piece of 'True Cross,' a Christian relic

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/russias-sunken-warship-may-have-been-carrying-piece-of-true-cross-a-christian-relic

I thought this would work like the Ark of Convenant in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", so make the owner invincible. But could be only the full cross gives the full effect. Or maybe the true cross they got this piece from was not really true. Should demand their money back

[Bereta_Eder]

it doesn't work if both parties are orthodox

[Bereta_Eder]

I bet they said that to make orthodox people sentimental.

putin wants to lead the orthodox world (alongside the far right world, regardless of religious affiliation) the same as erdogan wants to do with the muslims. in both cases the results were rather... limited

[Wezil]

I thought this would work like the Ark of Convenant in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", so make the owner invincible. But could be only the full cross gives the full effect. Or maybe the true cross they got this piece from was not really true. Should demand their money back

Religious people seeking relics are great prey for con artists.

[-Jrabbit]

Interesting story about the ship Moskva (originally named Slava), from Jim Wright, an ex-US Navy intelligence officer.

The picture is the Soviet warship Slava underway in the Black Sea off Sevastopol, 1986.

I took this image from the deck of USS Yorktown.

It took my wife a while to find the box of my old Navy albums (I would never have found it).

Slava was only a few years old then. Yorktown herself was brand new.

Yorktown was a new type of warship, an Aegis cruiser (robocruisers we called them), and she was FEARED by the Soviet Navy.

You have no idea how feared.

Yorktown and the destroyer Caron had been sent to make a Black Sea run, mostly to roust the Soviets.

And roust them we did.

The whole goddamn Black Sea fleet turned out, along with every Soviet patrol and strike aircraft in the region.

A lot of their ships were junk, Krivak frigates and Kashin destroyers led by an old WWII era Sverdlov class gun cruiser.

But there were also some new Soveremennyy and Udaloy destroyers backed up by deadly Tu-22M Backfire bombers operating out of the Crimean Peninsula in what was then a Soviet vassal state, The Ukraine.

And there was Slava himself (Russians regard ships as male).

New, fast, deadly and heavily armed, Slava, HIM we respected.

Those were intense times. It really felt like the final war could have started at any moment, especially when you were staring into Slava's missile tubes from a few hundred yards away.

Lot of years have passed since then.

USS Yorktown, a ship I remember fondly as new and high tech and the most feared war machine on the high seas, has long since been scrapped as obsolete, as have her sisters Ticonderoga and Valley Forge, both of which I served on.

Valley Forge, my last ship, was sunk as a target after being decommissioned. A sad fate for such a great vessel, but the exercise provided the Navy with valuable data that will make future warships more capable and survivable in combat.

And a far better fate than Slava's.

Renamed Moskva (Moscow in western pronunciation) after the fall of the Soviet Union and promoted to flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet, Slava was getting old, but he was still formidable and on the forefront Russian naval operations.

Russia was still quite proud of him.

We don't know the whole story yet, but Ukraine apparently used a targeting drone and shore based anti-ship missiles to strike Moskva - which is now variously reported as out of action, still afloat, on fire, under tow, and abandoned by her crew and no longer much of a threat.

Moskva SHOULD have been able to defend himself.

The ship's failure to do so leads to all sorts of avenues, none good, from obsolete technology, to poor training and readiness, to the ultimate military sin of grossly underestimating your enemy.

The truth, whatever it is, is the job of the Intelligence Community and whatever the cause of the defeat ultimately turns out to be, there's no way for Russia to spin this as anything other than a major blow -- though the Kremlin will certainly try.

"Slava" means "Glory" in Russian.

There's not much glory to be had for the Russian navy today. The ship's fate is a hell of a victory for Ukraine and an abject lesson for those mired in the past of naval warfare.
___

For any interested, here's a link to Jim Wright's website/blog, called Stonekettle. He's observant, well informed, and a decent essayist. Also a damned fine nature photographer... https://www.stonekettle.com/

[Berzerker]

are those guided missile launching tubes facing forward?

[Proteus_MST]

The angled launching tubes at the sides are supposed to house heavy anti ship missiles.

[Proteus_MST]

The crew of the Moskva got a reception by the Admiral of the Black Seas fleet.
The number of survivors (acording to the number of visible people) numbers less than 100 (out of more than 500)

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1515370033211449344

[pchang]

Russians seem pretty mad about a ship that was lost due to an accidental fire.

[dannubis]

First go tell the grandchildren why their grandma was torn to pieces by your bombs


go you little f. they're in belgrade

My bombs ?

Hey ****stain, several thousands of people got mass murdered in a clear attempt of ethnic cleansing. This act was perpetrated by people who you seem to identify with. Get of your high horse and look at the man in the mirror when you are sober enough.
Then you can go tell those grandchildren that your friends caused the reaction needed to stop these mass murders from occurring again.

[BlackCat]

What the hell are you talking about? Simulations?

AS Bebro says, it was training exercises - exercises to train american antisubmarine capacity - unfortunately. it didn't go well :

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-swedish-sub-ran-rings-around-us-aircraft-carrier-escorts-2021-7?r=US&IR=T

[Bereta_Eder]

My bombs ?

Hey ****stain, several thousands of people got mass murdered in a clear attempt of ethnic cleansing. This act was perpetrated by people who you seem to identify with. Get of your high horse and look at the man in the mirror when you are sober enough.
Then you can go tell those grandchildren that your friends caused the reaction needed to stop these mass murders from occurring again.

I don't indentify with people commiting crimes but seems you do hence "YOUR"bombs.

And you dare insunuate that the thousands of serbs that you killed somehow made something else than ethnically cleaninsg kosovo of serbs


go f yourself little tin tin and you get off your high moral facade and humanitarian bombings