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So what is up with the anti-government group in Michigan?

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  • #121
    The whole defense in most of these gun cases is if you have a gun and you think they have a gun that they are drawing, you have to shoot.

    This is a reason to not have a populace that is generally caring guns around.

    JM
    Jon Miller-
    I AM.CANADIAN
    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

    Comment

    • #122
      Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
      The whole defense in most of these gun cases is if you have a gun and you think they have a gun that they are drawing, you have to shoot.

      This is a reason to not have a populace that is generally caring guns around.

      JM
      It's the reasonable person standard. The jury is required to use that standard to judge whether or not the shooting was justified.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      Comment

      • #123
        Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
        We know what they should see, that no reasonable person would think they are going to be shot. Pulling a gun is not shooting, and there is not any reason to think he was pulling a gun anyway.
        It's a reasonable person in the shooter's situation that matters according to law.

        Drawing is a lethal threat with a deadly weapon. It can reasonably be assumed anyone drawing is going to shoot. Anyone who carries a gun should know this. Only draw if you plan to shoot. (May very well work against the shooter in this case.)

        Comment

        • #124
          I don't think you can shoot in that situation. Maybe in a robery. But if you could shoot it would definitely not be because someone's hand was going towards their gun.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment

          • #125
            Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

            I watched the video from a cell phone that I think is newly released.

            The guy that gets shot threatened the reporter as you say. Then the "guard" gets into an altercation with him, gets slapped, and then shoots the guy.

            So no, he isn't trying to disarm him. It would be better if he were. He's defending the reporter. I don't see any gun on the victim throughout the whole thing. I doubt if he had one, and it's totally unreasonable to think that he got shot because the "guard" thought he was going for a gun. He was clearly trying to defend the reporter from getting maced or whatever.

            He should try to say it was a crime of passion, because there is no way this is self-defense. You can't shoot someone because they say they are going to f you up.
            What if they hit and maced you first?

            Comment

            • #126
              Originally posted by Aeson View Post

              It's a reasonable person in the shooter's situation that matters according to law.

              Drawing is a lethal threat with a deadly weapon. It can reasonably be assumed anyone drawing is going to shoot. Anyone who carries a gun should know this. Only draw if you plan to shoot. (May very well work against the shooter in this case.)
              Except, you continue to lie. He never attempted to draw anything. He had his mace in his hand, that Antifa murderer attached him, pushed him, and attempted to take his property from him. The defender slapped that Antifa murderer away and was immediately, less than one second, shot and killed by the aggressor.

              No amount of you lying will change any of those facts. The defender backed away while the murderer advanced forward.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

              Comment

              • Berzerker
                #126.1
                Berzerker commented
                October 17, 2020, 02:10
                Editing a comment
                do you have a link to the shooter trying to take the guy's mace?
              • Dinner
                #126.2
                Dinner commented
                October 17, 2020, 18:19
                Editing a comment
                It is the same photograph where the guy gets slapped. You can see Dolloff’s left arm clearly trying to grab the can of Mace. Dolloff pushes the defender and reaches out to steal the can of Mace which is why the defender slaps him to get Dolloff away from him. The female reporter/photographer on the scene also said that was the sequence of events.
            • #127
              He was an employed security guard doing his job (over zealously). Why are you calling him a follower of antifa?

              JM
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment

              • #128
                Kid is displaying much better reading comprehension than you are Dinner.

                Comment

                • #129
                  I enjoy watching Kidicious PWNing everybody in every thread.

                  Kidicious is mighty.
                  • Likes 1

                  Comment

                  • Egbert
                    #129.1
                    Egbert commented
                    October 17, 2020, 02:39
                    Editing a comment
                    I wish I could "like" my own poasts. I like this poast so much.
                • #130
                  I liked your poast. If you like mine we can pretend we liked our own.
                  • Likes 1

                  Comment

                  • Egbert
                    #130.1
                    Egbert commented
                    October 17, 2020, 02:51
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you Aeson. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
                    I have liked your poast.

                    I still wish I could like my own poasts.
                    I hope the new owners were paid enough, to take this site, to afford such a change to the software.
                • #131
                  Originally posted by Berzerker View Post

                  What if they hit and maced you first?
                  No. That's not deadly force.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                  Comment

                  • #132
                    OMG, are you guys still litigating a videotape? LOL.

                    Back on topic: Apparently, the defense for the Whitmer plotters will consist of claiming this was just "big talk."

                    Five suspects charged with plotting to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer to stand trial

                    GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. - October 16, 2020 -

                    A Michigan judge has ruled there's enough evidence for a trial regarding the conspiracy to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

                    During court proceedings on Friday, a federal judge ruled that five men accused of conspiring to kidnap the governor and storm the capitol building in Lansing will go to trial. Last week, 13 men around the state and elsewhere were accused of several federal and state terrorism crimes.

                    A two-day preliminary hearing this week featured testimony by one of the FBI agents who ran the investigation, relying on confidential informants and undercover agents to thwart the purported scheme. U.S. Magistrate Judge Sally Berens is also set to consider Friday whether two of the men, Adam Fox and Ty Garbin, should be denied bond ahead of trial.

                    Berens on Tuesday denied bond for three other men charged with planning to abduct Whitmer. A sixth man facing federal charges, Barry Croft of Delaware, was ordered to be transferred to Michigan earlier this week.

                    If convicted, the accused face life in prison.

                    A total of 14 men have been charged in connection with the plot, which was revealed last week following a months-long investigation by federal agents. Among the six men facing federal charges for conspiring to kidnap Whitmer, five are from Michigan.

                    According to the complaint filed by federal authorities, the men were planning to kidnap the Democratic governor from her private residence in West Michigan, set off improvised explosive devices (IEDs) to slow the response of police, and then take Whitmer to a secluded area of Wisconsin where she would be tried for "treason."

                    Throughout the week, prosecutors presented evidence linking the individuals, who reportedly operated as part of the militia group Wolverine Watchmen, with clear intentions to carry out their plan.

                    The group's legal defense argued through attorney Scott Graham, the case was "big talk between crackpots" who never intended on acting on the plans.

                    However, Assistant U.S. Attorney Nils Kessler argued the group repeatedly took steps to protect their communication by using encrypted chat tools and worried that federal authorities had infiltrated the group.

                    Additionally, another eight men face state charges brought forth by Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel. The individuals are accused of several crimes, including providing material to support a terrorist act and felony firearm charges. The men surveyed the governor's northern Michigan home while others conducted paramilitary exercises at residences around the state.

                    Yesterday, Nessel's office confirmed the 14th person charged in the case is a Wisconsin man.
                    So apparently they will be going with Trump's "locker room talk" defense. "No really, we're just a bunch of blowhards with big guns..."
                    LOL.

                    https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/fiv...to-stand-trial
                    Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                    RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

                    Comment

                    • pchang
                      #132.1
                      pchang commented
                      October 19, 2020, 20:22
                      Editing a comment
                      and small penises?
                    • -Jrabbit
                      #132.2
                      -Jrabbit commented
                      October 19, 2020, 20:23
                      Editing a comment
                      And bad facial hair.
                  • #133
                    Denver shooter charged with second degree. Company that hired him might face criminal charges.
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment

                    • #134
                      Seems to me that 2nd degree is much more likely to be successful, and the actual case, then 1st degree (As initially reported).

                      I agree that the company should face consequences, as should cities who hire bad police officers.

                      JM
                      Jon Miller-
                      I AM.CANADIAN
                      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                      Comment

                      • #135
                        Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
                        He was an employed security guard doing his job (over zealously). Why are you calling him a follower of antifa?

                        JM
                        He is an Antifa supporter based upon his social media posts and past history. Certainly he is highly sympathetic to Antifa and BLM.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                        Comment

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