How many times did you leave forevah

[rah]

Most politicians are in the pockets of the rich, regardless of their party.

[Giancarlo]

Some are deeper in it. Democrats have their rich backers, but republicans have their noses in the scrotum of certain elites like Koch brothers.

[Ben Kenobi]

I am not talking about a handful of socialists/communists/etc proposing something, or even 1 or 2 of the most left congress members. I mean leadership or large number of congress members.

There were definitely big ones for Bush II. People seem to have short memories. Same for Reagan. As for Bush I and Ford, there were lots of issues for Ford especially regarding the pardoning, but he was the replacement for Nixon so he doesn't really count. Bush I, over the first Iraq war.

[Ben Kenobi]

No and no.

Many people did not vote. Turn out was much lower.

Well, as they say, denial ain't just a river in Egypt. I notice that Giancarlo didn't bother answering the question about Reagan Democrats, so lets dig into this a little bit deeper.

[Giancarlo]

There were definitely big ones for Bush II. People seem to have short memories. Same for Reagan. As for Bush I and Ford, there were lots of issues for Ford especially regarding the pardoning, but he was the replacement for Nixon so he doesn't really count. Bush I, over the first Iraq war.

Nothing even close to what happening to Donny. Now half of Americans want him impeached. If that number continues to rise and republicans lose big numbers in the House (which is going to happen), you may want to rethink your logic.

[Giancarlo]

Well, as they say, denial ain't just a river in Egypt. I notice that Giancarlo didn't bother answering the question about Reagan Democrats, so lets dig into this a little bit deeper.

You mean dixiecrats who went republican decades ago? Don't give a **** honestly. You have no clue what you are talking about. As expected.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's start with Minnesota

Of the Democrat held counties in 2012 in Minnesota, in 2016.

Lac Qui Lost
Beltrami Lost
Koochiching Lost
Itasca Lost
Nicollet Lost
Blue Earth Lost
Rice Lost
Freeborn Lost
Mower Lost
Winona Lost
Fillmore Lost
Houston Lost

Carleton Held 8,460 vs 8,160 11,389 vs 6,586 D - 3k voters R + 1,600 voters
Lake Held 3,077 vs 2,932 4,043 vs 2,610 D - 1k voters, R + 300 voters
Cook Held Unchanged


Olmstead* Held 36,268 vs 35,668 39,338 vs 36,832 D - 3k voters, R - 1k voters
Washington* Held 67,086 vs 64,428. 70,203 vs 69,137 D - 3k voters, R - 4.5k voters
St. Louis Held 57,771 vs 44,630 73,378 vs 39,131 D - 15k voters, R + 5.5k voters

Dakota Held 110,592 vs 99,864 116,255 vs 109,516 D - 6k voters, R - 10k voters
Ramsey Held 177,738 vs 70,894 184,938 vs 86,800 D - 7k voters, R - 17k voters
Hennepin Held 429,288 vs 191,770 423,982 vs 240,073 D + 5.5k voters, R - 50k voters

[Ben Kenobi]

Democrats lost a small amount of voters in every suburban and urban county in Minnesota, except for Hennepin where they increased their vote. Republicans lost 81k voters in just Washington, Dakota, Ramsey and Hennepin.

Despite the gain in Hennepin, Democrats lost 200k votes in Minnesota. Despite Trump losing 80k voters in Washington, Dakota, Ramsey and Hennepin, he gained 80k democrats from every other county in Minnesota.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's take another look at one of those Rural Obama counties that weren't carried. Mower county. 60+ democrat in 2012. There were 11,129 Obama voters in 2012. In 2016, there were 7,437. That's a drop of 3.5k voters. Trump increased that vote by 2k. While not all of the Democrats in Mower county switched over to the Republicans many did. Why did Trump lose Minnesota? He didn't campaign there. Had he gotten Romney numbers in Washington, Dakota, and Ramsey, he would have won, by about 40k votes. Shall I continue? The numbers just get worse for Iowa and the rest of the Democrat numbers.

[Ben Kenobi]

Iowa:

Woodbury - Lost
Webster - Lost
Boone - Lost
Jasper - Lost
Marshall - Lost
Powesheik- Lost
Tama - Lost
Union - Lost
Clarke - Lost
Jefferson- Lost
Wapello - Lost
Lee - Lost
Des Moines-Lost
Louisa -Lost
Muscatine -Lost
Jones -Lost
Cedar -Lost
Jackson -Lost
Clinton -Lost
Dubuque -Lost
Buchanan -Lost
Fayette -Lost
Clayton -Lost
Bremer -Lost
Chickasaw -Lost
Floyd -Lost
Cerro Gord-Lost
Worth -Lost
Mitchell -Lost
Howard -Lost
Winneshiek-Lost
Allmakee -Lost

Polk -Held 119,804 vs 93,492 128,465 vs 96,096 D -9k R-2.5k
Story -Held 25,709 vs 19,458 26,192 vs 19,668 basically unchanged
Black Hawk-Held 32,223 vs 27,476 39,821 vs 26,235 D -7k R+1k
Linn -Held 58,935 vs 48,390 68,581 vs 47,622 D -10k R+1k
Johnson -Held 50,200 vs 21,044 50,666 vs 23,698 D uch R-2.5k
Scott -Held 40,400 vs 39,141 50,650 vs 38,251 D -10k R+1k

[Ben Kenobi]

Once again, Lee County. 8,803 Trump, Clinton 6,215. Obama got 10,714 and Romney 7,785. Trump gained about 1k voters, while Clinton lost about 2k. Even though she won Scott, it's emblemic of the election. Yes, the democrats lost a lot of votes, but some of them switched to the republicans. Overall, Obama won Iowa by 90k voters. Trump won it by 150k voters. Republicans increased their vote by 70k in Iowa and Democrats lost 170k voters.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's do Michigan, since it seems like Gian is quite enjoying this.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gogebic - Lost
Manistee - Lost
Lake - Lost
Van Buren - Lost
Kalamazoo - Lost
Calhoun - Lost
Eaton - Lost
Shiawassee- Lost
Saginaw - Lost
Bay - Lost
Isabella - Lost
Macomb - Lost
Monroe - Lost



Marquette - 16,042 vs 14,646 18,115 vs 13,606 D - 2k R +1k
Muskegon - 37,304 vs 36,127 44,436 vs 30,884 D - 7k R +6k
Kalamazoo - 67,148 vs 51,034 69,051 vs 52,662 D - 2k R -1.5k
Genesee - 102,751 vs 84,175 128,978 vs 71,808 D -26k R +13k
Ingham - 79,110 vs 43,868 80,847 vs 45,306 D -1.5k R -2.5k
Oakland - 343,070 vs 289,203 349,002 vs 296,514D D -6k R -10k
Washtenaw - 128,483 vs 50,631 120,890 vs 56,412 D +7.5k R -5.8k
Wayne - 519,444 vs 228,993 595,846 vs 213,814 D-71k R + 15k

[Ben Kenobi]

Wayne county is funny. That massive -71k drop and Trump increasing the vote by 15k won him Michigan. Let's look at Bay County. 28,328k for Trump vs 21,642 for Hillary. O got 27,877 vs 24,911. Hillary managed to lose 6k votes, while trump got 3.5k votes! Trump had a conversion percentage of over 60 percent here!

[Ben Kenobi]

The Crown jewel though and the one that makes me happy is the state that went for Cruz in the primaries. Wisconsin.