Thread for obviously newsworthy stuff

[Dinner]

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/05/man_reports_being_followed_by.html

I will just leave that here. Yes, the pig in a police cruiser joke does seem rather obvious.

[Uncle Sparky]

[Kidlicious]

I don't follow the environment issues that much. Idk if they went too far or not, but I believe that the regulations were too many. Deregulation was needed. I don't follow everything but I know environmentalists and enough is never enough. It's the same with gun control, enough is never enough.

[Kidlicious]

Yep, guess that is the problem ... thast (at least the GOP/Conservatives) agenda is individualism ad extremum, without any regard for the wellbeing of the society as a whole

It is the same "philosophy" that lets Scott Pruitt dismantle one environmental protection law after the other, for the benefit of his benmefactors in industry, while at the same time dooming lots of citizens to a polluted environment (including possible pollution related diseases)

It's not disregard for society. We want to make a better society too, without making individual lives worse, and being a burden to individuals.

[Proteus_MST]

The problem is that you are proposing laws that are going to infringe on the rights of responsible gun owners and responsible parents. That's where our differences are. You want to do what is better for society by infringing on the rights of individuals. That's not what we do.

Yep, guess that is the problem ... thast (at least the GOP/Conservatives) agenda is individualism ad extremum, without any regard for the wellbeing of the society as a whole

It is the same "philosophy" that lets Scott Pruitt dismantle one environmental protection law after the other, for the benefit of his benmefactors in industry, while at the same time dooming lots of citizens to a polluted environment (including possible pollution related diseases)

[Kidlicious]

I am not talking about kids "playing" with guns under parental supervision ... but rather about letting their loaded guns lie open in the house, so the kids can grab them ...
or, even worse, giving their underage kids a shotgun or assualt rifle to "play" with it unsupervised

The problem is that you are proposing laws that are going to infringe on the rights of responsible gun owners and responsible parents. That's where our differences are. You want to do what is better for society by infringing on the rights of individuals. That's not what we do.

[Proteus_MST]

If you're suggesting that it be illegal to allow children to use guns that's not going to work or happen. Children need to be taught gun safety and how to use a gun if you have one in the house. That's what responsible parents do. But you want to punish those parents.

I am not talking about kids "playing" with guns under parental supervision ... but rather about letting their loaded guns lie open in the house, so the kids can grab them ...
or, even worse, giving their underage kids a shotgun or assualt rifle to "play" with it unsupervised

[Proteus_MST]

...
Parents have the right to let their children use guns and have access to guns. That's a gun right.
...

If that is true then US state laws that prohibit gun ownerships for certain firearm types until a certain age is reached are totally worthless.
Because every kid with the right persuasion skills can just talk its parents into giving him/her a shotgun or an assualt rifle to play ...
and the parents will never be taken into responsibility if anything happens while their kid "plays" with the weapon

[Kidlicious]

I would be very surprised if that were true
(I should add that I am not talking about kids who already have a driving license (or this special learners license that allows them to drive, accompanied by an adult))

If you're suggesting that it be illegal to allow children to use guns that's not going to work or happen. Children need to be taught gun safety and how to use a gun if you have one in the house. That's what responsible parents do. But you want to punish those parents.

[Proteus_MST]

....
It isn't illegal to let your child drive your car, nor should it be.
...

I would be very surprised if that were true
(I should add that I am not talking about kids who already have a driving license (or this special learners license that allows them to drive, accompanied by an adult))

[Broken_Erika]

Unless they've been thoroughly brainwashed by said parent. Then you can blame both the children and the parents.

[Kidlicious]

When children commit crimes they are responsible, not the parent.

[Kidlicious]

Well, the second version I proposed seems only fair to me.
Say it with another example:
If I as a car owner, leave the keys in my car and my kid then goes behind the wheel and (without my consent) uses it for a joyride and damages several houses and cars in the neighborhood, then I as the parent, am as responsible for the material damage (and have to pay full for it) as if it had been me, who sat behind the wheel.

Having at least the same requirement for parental responsibilities for tools that are purely meant to kill (i.e. firearms) should be common sense.
Likewise that parents, who leave these instruments to kill (and the ammo) out there, so their underage kids can grab them, should be punished harsher than parents who "just" enable their unerage kids to grab the car for a drive

It is the little thing called: assuming responsibilities

You own a weapon, you assume responsibilities ... also for preventing that it can be misused by other persons

Parents have the right to let their children use guns and have access to guns. That's a gun right. You want to take away that right. In you car example the parent is financially responsible but not criminally responsible. It isn't illegal to let your child drive your car, nor should it be. That said, you should not let irresponsible children drive or have access to weapons. But we can't pass laws punishing that because it's a violation of rights.

[Broken_Erika]

I bet the shooter was an outcast who was bullied while the teachers sat by did nothing...in those cases, if he did't have access to firearms he would have just grabbed a bunch of kitchen knives and become Slashey McStabface.....just sayin'..

[Proteus_MST]

I'm sure that you like all of those laws. People who believe in gun rights don't. So don't talk about little changes because we know what you are up to.

Well, the second version I proposed seems only fair to me.
Say it with another example:
If I as a car owner, leave the keys in my car and my kid then goes behind the wheel and (without my consent) uses it for a joyride and damages several houses and cars in the neighborhood, then I as the parent, am as responsible for the material damage (and have to pay full for it) as if it had been me, who sat behind the wheel.

Having at least the same requirement for parental responsibilities for tools that are purely meant to kill (i.e. firearms) should be common sense.
Likewise that parents, who leave these instruments to kill (and the ammo) out there, so their underage kids can grab them, should be punished harsher than parents who "just" enable their unerage kids to grab the car for a drive

It is the little thing called: assuming responsibilities

You own a weapon, you assume responsibilities ... also for preventing that it can be misused by other persons