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  • For starters, apologies for not posting a link to the article. My bad.

    Originally posted by rah View Post
    Thanks. Definitely shock reporting.
    Not at all. The part of the article which I quoted specifically states the following:

    Middle-class households tend to struggle with paying their health care bills rather than utilities, for instance. Health care costs have outpaced wages and inflation, pushing more Americans into high-deductible plans, which can backfire when serious health problems arise.
    As someone who sells this stuff, here is how it works (at least in Texas - your state may be different):

    An employer decides to offer health insurance so they go to their insurance guy and says "give me some quotes and tell me how this all works and how much it's gonna cost me". Insurance guy gets quotes... HMO, PPO, High Deductible Health Plan (HDHP), presents them to the business owner who, again, asks, "how much is this going to cost me?"

    The answer is this: The employer has to pay 50% of the lowest offered employee-only plan. Not 50% of the selected plan. Not 50% of any employee-only plan. 50% of the lowest-priced plan offered. This alone incentivizes the employer to select the cheapest plan we can give them. Guaranteed - I've never seen it happen where the employer, faced with this calculation, says "well, let's not offer the HDHP plan - that would be wrong!"

    So, here are some BCBS quotes I ran this week. First number is monthly price, second number is employer matching, third number is what the employee pays, fourth number is annualized employee expense *just for the insurance* for a 5-person group (numbers rounded to nearest dollar), 5th number is the annualized expense for the employer:

    HDHP
    [coverage option, monthly employer portion, monthly employee portion, employee annualized, employer annualized]
    Employee: 530, 265, 265, 3180, 3180
    Employee+children: 1059, 265, 794, 9528, 3180
    Employee+spouse: 1059, 265, 794, 9528, 3180
    Employee+family: 1588, 265, 1323, 15876, 3180

    This plan has a $6,500/$13,000 deductible

    HMO:
    Employee: 625, 265, 360, 4320, 3180
    E+C: 1250, 265, 985, 11820, 3180
    E+S: 1250, 265, 985, 11820, 3180
    E+F: 1,815, 265, 1550, 18600, 3180

    This plan has a $3500/7000 deductible

    PPO:
    Emp: 738, 265, 473, 5676, 3180
    E+C: 1477, 265, 1212, 14544, 3180
    E+S: 1,477, 264, 1212, 14544, 3180
    E+F: 2215, 265, 1950, 23400, 3180

    This plan has a $1500/3000 deductible.

    In the best case scenario, a sick employee who maxes out their deductible pays $7,176 per year for their covered health care expenses. And God forbid they have to do non-covered items like put wheelchair ramps in their house, for stuff like that isn't covered at all under these plans.

    Median household income in the US is $57,600. The cheapest of these plans, assuming no usage by the one person who is covered, is 5.5% of that figure. The cheapest of the family plans, assuming no usage by the family who is covered, is 27.5% of pre-tax income. 27.5%, just for health insurance!

    And, of course, if in the family both mama and baby are sick, then the most expensive of the family plans (including deductibles) is the HDHP one, which will cost $28,876, 50.1% of the median household pre-tax income. The least expensive of the plans is the HMO, setting them back $25,600, or 44% of the median household pre-tax income.

    And I live in San Antonio, where median household income is $1,500 less than in the US.

    This is not "shock reporting", Rah. This is math-based, financial reality. This is healthcare in America.
    Last edited by JohnT; August 30, 2018, 12:54.

    Comment


    • pchang
      pchang commented
      Editing a comment
      While all employers I have seen offer the HDHP plan, employers in tech and biotech subsidize quite a bit more than the minimum required.

    • JohnT
      JohnT commented
      Editing a comment
      99% of employing businesses are classified as "small business" and, of those, 95% of small businesses have 10 or fewer employees.

      https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/866118

      This is the market my agency works in, businesses smaller than 50 people. I can tell you from loooooong experience that the average small business owner subsidizes as little as possible. You can tell them until you're blue in the face that "Bill Gates didn't get to be the richest man on Earth by being cheap to his employees", but they do not, will not, listen... which is why they remain small.

    • pchang
      pchang commented
      Editing a comment
      Around here, it is fairly standard practice for start ups to use a staffing company like Adecco to actually employ their employees. Even though the company has less than 10 employees, they are technically employed by Adecco (or something similar) and so have access to the benefit plans offered by the staffing company (who has hundreds or even thousands on staff in such a fashion). I believe the industry term is called "payrolling".

  • To compare, the USDA estimates the avg family spends 9.6% of its income on food. Housing costs, according to the BLS, averages 37% of income. Utilities are 10% of income. Transportation is 4.8% according to the BLS. These four needs are already @ 61.4% of income.

    That one guy, living by himself, who doesn't use his HDHP? He's at 67% of his pre-tax income. If he gets sick and happened to select the "more expensive" PPO plan (but with a lower deductible, making total cost of ownership cheaper)? 74% of income. If he was stupid and chose the HDHP? 78% of income. If he has a family, non-working spouse, has the HDHP plan and maxes out the deductible? He is now at 112% of income.

    The only way one can say the article was incorrect is to not consider health a "need", which is silly.

    Comment


    • The Issue I had was with the headline, which implied that it was an ongoing daily issue when the question asked was if it happened once during the year. That's what I meant about shock reporting. I'm not saying it's not an issue but they sensationalized it. In market research we see it quite often. And I'm happy that my global employer does better providing a decent plan.
      It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

      Comment


      • Making 'murica gr8 again...

        ​​​​​​https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...b0511db3d59e34

        Companies are laying off workers due to foreign competition at a pace of roughly 90,000 per year since Trumpís election, according to a new report from Good Jobs Nation, a union-backed worker advocacy group.
        Outsourcing has actually accelerated under the orange emperor with no clothes.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

        Comment


        • This should be fun to watch the reaction from fox news and the president.
          Originally posted by BBC
          Man 'threatened to shoot' reporters who criticised Trump

          The FBI has arrested a man accused of making threatening calls to a newspaper that criticised President Donald Trump's attacks on the media.

          The FBI says Robert Chain, 68, called the Boston Globe about a dozen times and threatened to shoot reporters.

          He allegedly called journalists the "enemy of the people", using a phrase which has been frequently invoked by Mr Trump, who last tweeted it on Thursday.

          Mr Chain was arrested on Thursday at his home in Encino, California.

          Police say Mr Chain owned several firearms, and had recently purchased a small-calibre rifle.
          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45361665

          I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
          Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
          Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

          Comment


          • Encino... A true Encino man from the stone ages. Rather scary that we still have lunatics here in California. That's not all that far from where I live. Glad he was apprehended.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

            Comment


            • The WTO doesn't put America First! It must be destroyed!
              Originally posted by BBC
              Trump threatens to pull US out of World Trade Organization

              President Donald Trump has threatened to withdraw the US from the World Trade Organization (WTO) if the body fails to change the way it treats America.

              "If they don't shape up, I would withdraw from the WTO," Mr Trump said in an interview with Bloomberg News.

              The WTO was established to provide rules for global trade and resolve disputes between countries.

              But Mr Trump, who has been pushing protectionist policies, says the US is treated unfairly by the body.

              His warning about a possible US pull-out from the organisation highlights the conflict between the president's trade policies and the open trade system that the WTO oversees.
              https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45364150

              I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
              Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
              Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

              Comment


              • Kidicious
                Kidicious commented
                Editing a comment
                "But Mr Trump, who has been pushing protectionist...."

                Fake news. Stupid.

            • https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trouble-tr...opstories.html

              Trump has plunged in a new poll showing his approval rating at 36%. On top of that nearly half of Americans favor impeachment which is a record high. And 63% now back Robert Muellers investigation. Guess the last week really has been shitty for Trump.
              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

              Comment


              • And for something that's just cool! I want one!
                Originally posted by BBC
                Tablet bends 'like ancient scroll'
                A university in Canada has developed a tablet with a flexible screen that can rolled up. "We were inspired by ancient scrolls because their form allows for a more natural, uninterrupted experience of long visual timelines." says Dr Roel Vertegaal.

                Meanwhile, major technology brands are racing to be the first to bring such flexible technology to the market.
                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/techno...ancient-scroll

                I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
                Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
                Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

                Comment


                • I will dress like an ancient Roman with a scroll tablet... Sounds awesome.
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                  Comment


                  • Smart window curtains could be the next big thing.
                    I am not delusional! Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go dance with the purple wombat who's playing show-tunes in my coffee cup!
                    Rules are like Egg's. They're fun when thrown out the window!
                    Difference is irrelevant when dosage is higher than recommended!

                    Comment


                    • Hacking these smart curtains so they open when the houses inhabitant undresses ... or has sex ... could be a big thing among voyeurs
                      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                      Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                      Comment


                      • This is definitely newsworthy stuff

                        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                        Steven Weinberg

                        Comment


                        • LEGO
                          Blah

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Broken_Erika View Post
                            And for something that's just cool! I want one!

                            https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/techno...ancient-scroll
                            But if you got lotsa ancient scrolls laying around, you might have a hard time finding your tablet now
                            Blah

                            Comment

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