Baffled by Charlottesville

[Cort Haus]

Calling everybody who disagrees with you a fascist only weakens the power of the word, the same way "bigot" used to mean something really bad but is now merely another word for someone who disagrees with SJWs in some way.

Of course the word 'bigot' actually means politically or religiously intolerant. In the 'progressive' metropolitan bubble which comprises most of the people I work and socialise with, at least 99% of the bigotry I experience is the visceral hatred from supposedly left-leaning people against anyone who disagrees with them. And the people they hate the most seem to be the poor.

[Elok]

Well, it can also mean "One who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices." From Wiktionary. That's true a lot of places, though in my experience leftists are much more fiery about it of late. Which is, I suppose, understandable. But I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I talk with conservatives. Possibly this is because I'm much more familiar with what exactly conservatives hate, whereas the list of things liberals dislike is somewhat variable over time. It's also my experience that, if you say something a conservative disagrees with, he'll reply with scorn (I'm too stupid to know better), while the liberal in the same situation will reply with revulsion (I'm a horrible person for thinking that).

[Aeson]

The religious right doesn't judge?

[Elok]

I'm only going by my personal experience here, of course, but when I talk with social conservatives I know, I know where I stand, and while I don't bring up subjects of disagreement (esp. theological ones) out of politeness, I don't feel like I'd be jeopardizing the friendship if I did unless I were deliberately being an ass. Whereas I disagreed with a guy I've known for fifteen years about Charlottesville recently, and got FB-unfriended.

With economic/liberties conservatives, of course--who are more numerous among my acquaintances--you can say just about any fool thing and they'll only roll their eyes and call you a statist tool.

[Aeson]

So you are comparing rational people on the right to irrational people on the left and ignoring irrational people on the right and rational people on the left? Or are you just saying you're on the right so don't get attacked by right wing loons? Either way it seems you're ignoring a great many events that are part of public record.

[The Mad Monk]

Sorry I'm not intelligent enough for you. Feel free to block me.

Well can you blame him? He sees Donald Trump every time he reads your posts, after all.

[Uncle Sparky]

I suspect he likes The Donald more than he will admit... oh well, enough 'forbidden' conversation for now...

[Elok]

Troll Containment Protocol only applies to BK and Kiddy. TMM is not a troll and never has been AFAIK.

[Ben Kenobi]

As usual BK, you are wrong. It is essential to show racists and bigots that they are wrong. They hold a rally with 50 people, meet them with 5000.

And how is that working out for you? Swarming them and attempting to shut them down is going to garner them sympathy.

Don't physically attack them, but equally, if they want to spew racist crap, even Donald Trump approved racist crap, shout them down

So you show up with bullhorns and blast them? That might make you feel good but it makes you look like the aggressors here.

Then take the microphone

Their microphone? Right. Again, that's only going to serve them, not you. Who looks like the fascists then?

And, like in the states, the bigots are getting their pictures taken. Back in March, a friend of mine was assaulted by a anti-immigration racists fellow named Brad Salzberg in Vancouver. The assault was captured on video, and the fellow seemed to pick my friend to knock down because she's a rather small woman.

And I've had friends assaulted by counterprotests. Some ended up in jail for their troubles.

My advice is quite simple. Don't try to swarm them. If they've got 50, bring about as many as they have. Let them talk to people and let them hang themselves.

Usually, the anarchists (yes, we have them here too) will show up, read the mood, and react.

And because of that people end up dead.

[Bereta_Eder]

In gerenal far right wing/ nazi/fascist views are so despised that if people that advocate them have the nerve to get out on the streets in numbers then there's something very bad going on with the people at large/society.

it is a gauge of how things are going.

the why these views are reprehensible is because they lead to war. it is considered their eventuality (by the dominent narrative). also to interal societal intolerance, fascist waht.

As to how to deal with them, they have large backing in the police (unless you're in sweden or something) so it's not like they are like a fish out of the water.

the opposition is massively more than them of course

[Bereta_Eder]

of course that's what history and things of the past teaches us unmistakenly

the present rarely has anything to do with that and totaliarism can come from many sides indeed. (the fascists of tomorrow will be called anti-fascists, winston churchill)


I was reading time magazine that had as a theme "hate in america"


two things stood out.


one of a black guy that said that the US is a country born out of genocide and based on slavary and untillit faces that fact things will not improve, really. I agree with that and with all countries facing their dark truths, if they wanna


the other thing is that unlike other countries the US doesn't have a backbone of "what it is supposed to be". all other countries more or less know what they are. (it's not always flattering)

so the US is exceptionally free in shaping itself and its idenity.
this is both enthralling and scary,


I'd add that that's maybe why it goes hard on protecting things like freedom of speach, indivinduality, rule of law etc in the absence of a metaphysical "we" it clings on ideas. that's very good, I don't know if it helpfull (great everyone said their opinion. know where do we go?)

this tabula rasa thing though doesn't convince me. I believe there are some very clear cut (and very reactionary from one POV) birth giving roots to the US.
of course after hundrends of years maybe these have recided. who knows.


it is an interesting debate nevertheless. it seems most people are alike the world over

[Berzerker]

ideologies are just expressions of human nature and people can have both fascistic and anarchist ideas, even 'anarchists' can act like fascists.

[giblets]

No conversation with BK is intelligent. If you like indulging him, good for you. Comment or take it elsewhere. I don't want his **** dragging down my thread.

Good luck with that.