Baffled by Charlottesville

[Cort Haus]

With that said: I don't really understand why any part of the Charlottesville brawl needed to happen.

If the number of actual Nazis in the USA wouldn't fill a sports stadium, as I would have thought, and as you suggested in one of your posts, then I wouldn't have thought that violence was necessary either.

However, because Nazism is the symbolic epitome of complete and total evil, there are a lot of people who feel that any manifestation of it is worthy of a violent response because it proves their righteousness (rather that it being a geniune threat). Contrast that with the reaction to ~460 people being killed by Islamofascists in Europe over the last three years, where the main reaction to that is sadness and moving on. No sense of mobilising to resist it, despite the fact that Islamism is a far more widespread and existential political threat that a tiny minority of whiny white supremacists are in the USA.

Also, when Hillary Clinton and her party backed Ukrainian Nazis violently overthrowing the democratically elected leader of that country, the response of the bien pensant who are currently furiously demonstrating their virtue against the alt-right was to side with the Nazis in the coup and to approve the subsequent oppression and violence against Russian speakers in the Donbass.

[Elok]

ACLU: American Civil Liberties Union, group that fights for individual freedoms in extreme cases. They went to court to defend the right of the Nazis to march where they wanted.
LEO: Law enforcement officer.
VSP: Virginia State Police.
SAA: Single action army (I had to look this one up myself). For added American context, out newscasters are fond of breathlessly saying "[x] were armed with semi-automatic weapons!" as if this means something terrifying, when really it only means that their guns do not require them to do something fiddly to get the gun ready to fire again after every shot. Most guns are semi-automatic. Some people appear to think the word means "burst fire" or "can fire on full-auto some of the time" or something. It's unclear if the news do this because they are too dumb to know better, or if they are being disingenuous.
MRAP: Mine-resistant ambush protected (also had to look up). Our police, as you may have heard, are fairly heavily armed, and some of them have "MRAP" armored vehicles.
RKBA: Right to keep and bear arms.

Basically Lonestar is saying that the cops were loaded to take down a small army, but ostensibly wet their pants at the sight of this undisciplined mob of neckbeards with sticks, shields, and a handful of mixed firearms (which none of them even used).

[Bereta_Eder]

The charlotteville thingie brings to mind this:


nazis try to equate communists and nazis.


If you try to do that, you're a nazi.


Now esthonians who hold the EU presidency said let's have a ball where all EU countries condemnt "communsit crimes" (sic)

Greece was the only country who said "Fvck that (all over the floor)


And now it says esthonia are nazi sympathizers


My only question is:


why are some greek so stupid

and do they not see that people throw up when the private sold PORN channels play venezuela?

[Bereta_Eder]

nazis are nazis and esthonians seem to be nazi.

They say :comminists did crimes

well DUHHHH sherlock

but the onmes who try to promote that are nazis.

[Bereta_Eder]

NOw seeing as there needs ot be unanimity and Greece siad bite my giant D!CKUS, there won;t be an EU common statement.


So the EU does NOT condemnt communist crimes


****ing nazis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKDdT_nyP54

[BeBMan]

Contrast that with the reaction to ~460 people being killed by Islamofascists in Europe over the last three years, where the main reaction to that is sadness and moving on. No sense of mobilising to resist it, despite the fact that Islamism is a far more widespread and existential political threat that a tiny minority of whiny white supremacists are in the USA.

Given the fact that these terror guys usually get shot more often than jailed (unless of course, they don't off themselves as part of the...uh...process), what kind of response from the public would you like to see?

[Bereta_Eder]

He's prtobably saying to ban muslim immigration.

I have inside info.

9 out of ten of "refugeess" are not refugees. they are financial immigrants.

They are locko, women do trotiore (prostitute0 ****ing primitives.(like some europeans)_



but freemarkets want labor so they let them in and then blame leftists


****ing priock.




right wing and free market wants immigrants. only muslims come here because their countries are ****ed up


stop blaming the left wing


right wing brings them in and then blame the left wing


now arabs (they love greece) but hgave to say


what the **** with maroco and algeria and ****?


desert?


ANYWAY I won't say nasty things (I think them though) but ****

[Cort Haus]

Given the fact that these terror guys usually get shot more often than jailed (unless of course, they don't off themselves as part of the...uh...process), what kind of response from the public would you like to see?

Oh, that's ok then. They get shot after their massacres. Nothing to see here.

What I'd like to see is an honest and open debate about a particular interpretation of a religion that regularly massacres civilians and whose state-sponsor (Saudi Arabia) is being supported by the governments of the people that are being killed. A report into Saudi involvements with Daesh terror has been suppressed by the British government. I'd like to see a response which demands some honesty about that, for starters.

[giblets]

I don't like Nazis.

[Aeson]

Finally, someone with the guts to stand up and say it!

[Cort Haus]

ACLU: American Civil Liberties Union, group that fights for individual freedoms in extreme cases. They went to court to defend the right of the Nazis to march where they wanted.
LEO: Law enforcement officer.
VSP: Virginia State Police.
SAA: Single action army (I had to look this one up myself). For added American context, out newscasters are fond of breathlessly saying "[x] were armed with semi-automatic weapons!" as if this means something terrifying, when really it only means that their guns do not require them to do something fiddly to get the gun ready to fire again after every shot. Most guns are semi-automatic. Some people appear to think the word means "burst fire" or "can fire on full-auto some of the time" or something. It's unclear if the news do this because they are too dumb to know better, or if they are being disingenuous.
MRAP: Mine-resistant ambush protected (also had to look up). Our police, as you may have heard, are fairly heavily armed, and some of them have "MRAP" armored vehicles.
RKBA: Right to keep and bear arms.

Basically Lonestar is saying that the cops were loaded to take down a small army, but ostensibly wet their pants at the sight of this undisciplined mob of neckbeards with sticks, shields, and a handful of mixed firearms (which none of them even used).

Thanks for this.

[Proteus_MST]

...

As for confronting them . . . what did that accomplish here? Americans despised Nazis before. They despise Nazis now. I don't think it's done a whole lot to Trump's approval rating. Nobody's opinion changed in any way. A lot of people got the **** beat out of them, and one civilian and two cops are dead. That's . . . about it.

Confronting them (non-violently, of course) has a lot of symbolism.
If they are marching alone (without counter protests) they may get the illusion that they are strong, feared and that they rule the streets (they are marching on). Which actually might give them a kick ... reinforce their behavior.
If they are surrounded by much more numerous counter protesters it shows them that they are not societally accepted, that the population stands against them and, even more important, that the people don't fear them. It also shows the rest of the world, that the population stands against the Neonazis and so may have symbolism even outside of the country.
The experience (of counter protests) may also dissuade some people from joining the Neonazi-Movement (or püersuade some of its members, to break ties with them and seek help of exit-support groups.

I think the turks (here in germany) have a similar problem.
The Erdogan-Movement appears strong because there are nbot many counterprotests (and if, they have only a few participants).
This is understandable because opponents of Erdogan (hee in germany) may fear denounciations (which take place) and therefore negative consequences for themselves or their relatives in turkey.
But this also increases the illusion of strength and social acceptance of the Erdogan momvement and therefore its attractiveness.

Perhaps, if all people (of turkish descent) who are against Erdogan, would go to the streets and form counterprotests (at least in those countries where they can protest without harm), Erdogan would have less support. Perhaps he also wouldn't have won the Referendum of the beginning of the year, which gives him quasi dictatorial powers.

[Elok]

I don't think they were under any illusions about their numbers, or their acceptability. They'd been planning this for months, calling out everyone from across the country, and got like 500 people in a nation of over 300 million. That's pathetic. I think you could get more people to go marching against jock itch, with the amount of effort they put into this. Have I mentioned yet that even the other racists don't like the Nazis? Because it appears they don't.

[BeBMan]

Oh, that's ok then. They get shot after their massacres. Nothing to see here.

What I'd like to see is an honest and open debate about a particular interpretation of a religion that regularly massacres civilians and whose state-sponsor (Saudi Arabia) is being supported by the governments of the people that are being killed. A report into Saudi involvements with Daesh terror has been suppressed by the British government. I'd like to see a response which demands some honesty about that, for starters.

I guess you have to take this to the British gov then. In the meantime I'm fine with them terrorists getting shot.

[rah]

The Blues Brothers for the WIN.

[Ben Kenobi]

IIUC Boston's rally wasn't actually Nazis, they identify as civic nationalists. Still pretty far right, but hardly Nazis.

Seriously guys. Swarming and trying to shut down free speech people is going to hurt your cause in the long run. Boston wasn't a victory for anyone save the fascists.