Social progress

[Ming]

Gosh. Threatening to shut the school down for teaching ALL of the bible, not just the parts you like is in fact shutting a school down for teaching the bible. Again, I predicted this all the way back in 2005 that this conflict would arise. Sure enough. It's not just enough 'to leave us alone', that was never the intent.

Yet again... they refused to give them funding because of a legal dispute. They aren't being threatened to shut down. One more time, if they shut down, it's THEIR decision.

Uh, no they actually can't. School boards here manage a particular area.

Then I guess all the different media in Canada disagree with you... Every story I read claimed they can change school boards, but that does take time.

[Ben Kenobi]

So, if the law/constitution actualy only grants catholic schools the freedom to teach whatever they want, this doesn't include said school, as it is an evangelical one

Yeah, that's the bizarre thing, is that if they were in Quebec they would be protected. In AB their funding won't be protected, as it was set up by AB's provincial government as an evangelical school. Thanks for finding this.

Probably worth a charter challenge, IMO. I think there's enough in this case to justify the Supreme Court of Canada having their say. We shall see.

I heard about the case from some friends of mine with the homeschool board that have had their own issues with the current provincial government trying to shut them down as well. It's not just about this school, other boards in AB are also having issues with their operation and accreditation. My homeschool friends in BC are also gearing up for challenges directed at them.

They'd probably have been able to pull funding without a fuss if they had an actual complaint per the performance of the school vs others in standardized testing. But that's not the crux of the argument. That it's targeting specific biblical passages and not all of them is really causing a ruckus.

Well, laws can be changed ... but at the moment I don't think the catholic church in geermany needs to worry ...
it still has the freedom fire lesbian kindergarteners at will, like in the one case somee year ago, where it was done despite the protests of the parents (of the kids at the kindergarten), as the kindergartnerer was well liked and trusted by them

The Catholic church has the right to hire Catholics who support the teachings of the Catholic church. But your funding arrangement is strange IIRC, all the Catholic schools are state funded since Bismarck?

it AFAIK also can still fire (or refuset hire) doctors and othe rmedial personnel based on their marital status (i.e. divorced is a no-go) orr secul orientation ...
and also still can open "Catholic Hospitals" that, despite bearing "Catholic" in their name (and having the Catholic church in total control of personnel politics) are financed almost totally by the german state (with german taxpayers money, regardless of taxpayers confession, marital status or sexual orientation)

Well they don't have a choice about funding. Bismarck dis-established all the private Catholic schools, IIRC.

[Ben Kenobi]

they refused to give them funding because of a legal dispute. They aren't being threatened to shut down. One more time, if they shut down, it's THEIR decision.

So if they cut back on public school funding they aren't 'shutting down' schools? Pulling the funding because it's not guaranteed per the charter is one thing. Pulling it because you disagree with two passages of the bible, (which just happen to be ones condemning homosexuality), is quite another.

This case is probably headed to the Supreme Court.

[Ming]

Yep... a legal dispute. But one more time, if the school closes, it's the schools decision. Not as you claim that the government is shutting them down.
And again, I looked at multiple media reports from respected Canadian media, and THEY ALL CLAIM THAT THE SCHOOL CAN JOIN ANOTHER SCHOOL BOARD!

[Bereta_Eder]

having the state paying for religious things isn't always and only a matter of non believers made to pay for believers stuff, as proteus, correctly says but there are more layers.


the one who controls the money controls the entity (to a degree)


For example abortion is completely off the books for the orthodox xhurch (OTOH the independent character of the clergy actually leaves a lot of leeway for that but it's sure that if the church had its way we'd be like ireland or something)

So in fact, abortion is the highest in all of europe because it is also complteley state funded.

To the point that abortion is somtiems used as..... contraceptive!!!!!!

It's gross, inefficient, dangerous.

There needs to be some ducation. Not because it's completely free in the health care system and completely not reprehensible that so many women should do it

Don't do it so often! Use pills or something or the condom etc


But the point is "paying" a church is a way to control her too

[Bereta_Eder]

we greeks are devious people.
you shouldn't trust us when we bring gifts

[Ben Kenobi]

having the state paying for religious things isn't always and only a matter of non believers made to pay for believers stuff, as proteus, correctly says but there are more layers.

Personally I'd rather see all the schools go private AND vouchers going to the parents for the equivalent cost that would be incurred if the student were to attend public schools. If public schools are spending 12k per kid, the parents would get the same amount of money in a lump sum in September of each year. They could then use the money to put their child in whatever school they prefer or to homeschool their child.

Right now parents keeping their children home are saving the system money AND they are paying to fund the public system.

[Ben Kenobi]

But one more time, if the school closes, it's the schools decision. Not as you claim that the government is shutting them down.
And again, I looked at multiple media reports from respected Canadian media, and THEY ALL CLAIM THAT THE SCHOOL CAN JOIN ANOTHER SCHOOL BOARD!

Funny that they media never specifies *which* board they could join. There's a reason for that. They can't.

The government is trying to shut them down because they choose to teach all of the bible. That's ripe for a Charter challenge based on freedom of religion and expression. If there were a dispute over performance why doesn't the government try to shut them down on those grounds?

[Ming]

Yet again, a single school board has denied some funding. Not trying to shut them down. BK lie one.
BK saying they can't change school boards, yet all the media I've read says they can. BK lie two.

Again... BK's "Government is Forcing school to close for teaching religion" statement is just another BIG BK LIE.

[Ben Kenobi]

a single school board has denied some funding

And why are they doing that Ming? Because they are teaching all of the bible, as a certified Christian school.

If there were issues with performance, why not pull their accreditation?

[Ming]

Again, a single school board. NOT THE GOVERNMENT!
And the school board is NOT shutting them down.

You can keep whining all you want, but your claims of the government shutting down a school for teaching religion is just ONE BIG LIE!

[Ben Kenobi]

claims of the government shutting down a school for teaching religion is just ONE BIG LIE!

Why not pull their accreditation altogether, Ming? Could it be because it's all about politics and nothing to do with education?

[Ming]

Could it be that you keep changing the subject since your original statement was one big lie?
The "GOVERNMENT" is NOT shutting down the school for teaching religion. And that's A FACT!
A single school board has withdrawn funding... And that's a FACT!

[Ben Kenobi]

Could it be that you keep changing the subject since your original statement was one big lie?

If it were a lie you would answer my question instead of evading it. Why doesn't the government close down this obviously inferior school and pull their accreditation for poor performance?

If this were the case we'd see the government arguing this was the reason for the shutdown. They do not. Therefore, it logically stands to reason that this school is performing at least up to par and likely better. I'd love to see the actual results for this school stacked up against all the other ones.

When then is the government attempting to close down this school, if the school is performing adequately?

Because the school has the temerity to teach the bible. Which raises an obvious question. If teaching the entirety (and not part) of the bible were detrimental to education, surely this would be validated in the results, but this we do not see. Which makes another question.

This school is not a new school, nor has it changed how it has been operating. This is not a recent change undertaken and proven unsuccessful. This school has been operating in this fashion for quite some time. Yet, the previous government did not attempt to close this school.

Why?

I don't have a good answer for that unless it comes down to the fact that the current government does not want the bible being taught to students.

As a Catholic, how can you justify supporting government action contrary to the promotion of the gospel, Ming?

[Ming]

STRAW MAN!
Again, since you keep wanting to tell the same lie over and over again.
NOBODY IS SHUTTING DOWN THE SCHOOL. If the school closes, it's THEIR DECISION.

We have a SINGLE school board cutting funding to a single school. They can fight it out in court.

And as a Catholic, why do you keep telling the same lies over and over again?
Lying is a sin isn't it?