Wish me luck - we're going in

[Ming]

We don't hold non-Catholics to Catholic teachings.

Bullsh*t

[Ben Kenobi]

Uh, in this example, it's pertinent. Why would we say that someone who is divorced, and isn't Catholic is committing adultery against their spouse when they don't believe that marriage is indissoluble?

[Pekka]

Lost me there.

I am divorced and show is she. We were supposed to be in a relationship. To me it seems like she's doign some outside activities. Probably has been doing it all time along. Why? Because she said her ex used to cheat on her the whole time, from dating to their divorce. I reckon I've heard this crap before. Probably it was her all the time, and supposedly he was violent and depressed. I don't see if she is violent or not, I don't put it behind the possibility, but she would not pull that **** on me. She is not truthful in general.

[Ming]

Uh, in this example, it's pertinent. Why would we say that someone who is divorced, and isn't Catholic is committing adultery against their spouse when they don't believe that marriage is indissoluble?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Same as if a gay couple get married and they don't believe that gay marriage is a sin... Since they aren't Catholic, it's not a sin to them.

[Pekka]

How prevalent is cheating? I figure it is nto uncommon. I logically know, that there are lots of polygamist women who are honest, but where are they? I hate the fact that I actually treated her so well. Took her out to fancy restaurants and paid for menus. Took her for trips, just treated her well. She spent money as well, got me a nice present for my bday, but in general, I figure where the women are who actually deserve and genuinely appreciate it.

I feel as if bringing this up sucks in the ones who are vampires.

edit: She knows that right now I feel like having sex, as I told her how the check ups drive it. And that is exactly the point when it all stopped. We were having somewhat regular sex the whole summer. Now that I came forward, it stopped. I find the timing very interesting. I knwo she will come back with this exact same thing, she will ask me to come and play. But I dunno, I think not. Who knows, I should go and get a check up for STDs now. Having sex with a doctor is dangerous business it turns out.

[Pekka]

I think she's a bit of a stalker as well. I remember when we started dating last year, I sent her my instagram username, that has few unindentifiable pics of my kids and mostly hiking pics, and random stupid stuff. She claimed to not know it, and we were having a period where we did not see each other for weeks (due to her "being busy"), and so one extremely hot model started following me, and it took less than few hours and she started to follow me as well, and like my pictures. I found it odd. How in earth, since she was not looking that stuff, she goes months back, remembers my username, and starts to follow me? I did not think it as a conicidence, then.

Also, she has trashed me on my face by using "other dates", in terms of "this one guy I dated", while she was obviously talking about me. She found it very funny. I've told to er face many times that I have a good memory and I deal with things at work which requires good read of situations, and I get confused with her all the time. I gave her a clue that I recognise discrepancies between words and actions in people. That said, she always goes back to how empathetic she is. She underlines it, and how she never cheats, how she is not playing games. She always says that. TO me, that says, "and those are the things you do not have because normally people don't say that at all". I don't say to people I have empathy. Or that I have two legs and arms and a head. I find it disturbing when people underline common stuff. She usually tries to intellectualise things that are feeling-based. She thinks that my feelings are based on rationality, so to get me, you should rationalise things. THis is not true at all, and she doesn't get it. In some respect, she is stupid beyond belief. I guess so am I, for finding myself in these situations. Maybe I'm an addict.

[dannubis]

In short:
1. 2 men are walking across the savana. One of them is holding a brick. The other one asks, "why are you holding that brick all the time?". The first one says: "if we get chased by a lion a can drop the brick and run faster". -> drop the brick.
2. Learn to not let your happiness depend only on being in a relationship. It is like a drug at first, but once you can be "baseline" happy all by yourself and let a relationship help you reach new heights (and lows) you will find the woman that "fits" with you (if there ever was such a thing).

[Pekka]

In short:
1. 2 men are walking across the savana. One of them is holding a brick. The other one asks, "why are you holding that brick all the time?". The first one says: "if we get chased by a lion a can drop the brick and run faster". -> drop the brick.
2. Learn to not let your happiness depend only on being in a relationship. It is like a drug at first, but once you can be "baseline" happy all by yourself and let a relationship help you reach new heights (and lows) you will find the woman that "fits" with you (if there ever was such a thing).

I meant monogamy, not polygamy. She said she is polyamorous, meaning that she might like to play with other people, TOGETHER when agreed upon. Not behind the back. I do not believe her for one second anymore. That leaves her with the "I did not like to you, I todl you I was poly". Yeah, well, still not what we talked about. And yes, I consider it cheating. IT was in the context of relationship that goes on for years, not when dating. ****ing around in a new relationship is wrong. As a doctor, she should take it more seriously anyway. RIsky behaviour like that is likely deriving from some sort of psychological damage. And of course she works at psych ward at the moment. Of course

Yes.. in some weird sense I don't feel bad. I do and I don't. Even if she is on some sex rampage now, I just don't care. I accept that it is for the better. She is harming herself, in the longer run that harm will be projected onto me. I did not survive cancer to go down another hole. We had fun for a year. Real fun. It was good, until it was not. I do not think she is stable, ready for a relationship, I do not believe she is a person who will ever have a relationship that is not filled with lies and deception or cruelty. Even if she never lied, she is still cold and cruel and unreachable. That makes me feel good that I'm alone. LIke said, she keps the crazy away for around 2 to 3 months, and then something happens. She hides drama though. She isolates. I guess the drama is going on, then. She also does not let her friends into her drama. I know she is very isolated during those times. I figured maybe she has Aspergers or something similar, it would explain her cruel comments and high intelligence. Or, maybe not. Either way, it would not work so it makes no sense to continue something that has no future.

I did wait for her all this time. We've had weeks and weeks when we have not seen. She's been "busy" a lot. When it fades away, and I kind of leave her in my mind, she gets in contact. I figured she does not know what she wants, so I figured I'd be patient. Obviously she is not ready or even meant for a normal relationship, and by normal I mean to settle down with one person, or even persons. My intuition is warning all the previous flags as well; she has lived in so many countries, who knows what kind of a trail she has left behind? That was an actual flag. The constant moving around. I see I am giving a lot of information about myself to her, and she returns _none_. She plays a game of the opposites; She tells me the opposite. What really worries me is the fact that she wants to be treated like crap, sexually. I feel it as harmful, and as a strong self respecting feminist, it makes me think what's going on. She gets angry when I say the term hot/cold. That, to a medical professional means empathy gap, a classic NPD sign.

I do not know if she is one or not, it does not matter. It is amazing how the superficial charm works. It is quite magnificent. I think the most obvious sign has been that nothing returns. Emotionally, I feel as if she feels nothing. Not that she has no feelings in general, but it's like a wall. And when pressured, it's either mirroring back, feeling I am being accusatory, panic mode, or she gives an intellectual answer. Never ever emotional one. Even her compliments seem very non-emotional, and often contradictory, when for example she said I am impossible to figure out, she then later complimented "You are very self-aware and that is the thing I like the most about you."
Right. It just changes according what day it is. The whole thing is very covert. She's not all over me with compliments. She's more like distant, and cold with the occasional warm. I feel it as if conditioning practice. I guess I held on to few things too much, as in her intelligence and geekiness, which were fun. Disregarded everything with "she had a bad marriage, she don't trust people". Well, too bad.

[Ben Kenobi]

Same as if a gay couple get married and they don't believe that gay marriage is a sin... Since they aren't Catholic, it's not a sin to them.

I'll respond to this in the thread devoted for this purpose.

[Pekka]

Things are going better. I feel good about myself. I feel I've handled things correctly. I won't "bother her", my last message to her was that "did not know you were busy, let me know when you have time, hon, xx"

So, the ball is on her corner. I guess it's playing games, but I'll let her get away from me if she wants to. IF she wants to see, it's going to be about discussing what is going on, about rules, and that if she is not into me, then we should call this off, she is mistaken if she thinks I'll be here for her forever to be treated what I consider disrespectful and not at all relationship like.

That will give her a chance to explain herself, after which we can officially break up. She will feel this all is an accusation. If she never contacts me, that is fine as well. She can say anything she wants to her friends as to why I am no longer around. She's an adult (age wise) and I told her to let me know she's not busy. The previous message was that I'd like to discuss as I am hanging here. And that we could go and see a movie. So I have asked her out with the "we also need to talk" attached. None of this is accusatory, I feel that adults, if they have a relationship can request a discussion and re-evaluation of a relationship to make things better and if it is a red flag and denial of discussion - it is over anyway.

While I am a bit saddened, I also feel exploited. I even feel sexually exploited. I won't say I need my whip back, wasn't too expensive but let's just say I feel I did all that I could and I do not trust her, and she has to explain, if she wants to. Again, I feel it will hurt her more than myself. I think she might be extremely afraid of rejection in life, whereas my fear is at a more healthy level. It hurts, but at the same time, things cannot go like this. I would not introduce her to my children. I do feel continually insulted that she never asks anything about my kids, shows absoluteley no interest. I am a father, so they are everything to me. I don't need to ask for their love at all. My job is to make sure they get enough attention and a stable household. She does not fit the picture. An unstable person like that has no room in my children's life. So I guess that also settles it when thinking about it.

Still, it sucks, but less than getting brain cancer. Or being almost 10 years with my ex. A year is a nip in the butt. My feeling of sadness will translate into joy with someone else later. I think for now though, I'll be by myself for some while. Focus on the kids, focus on health and hobbies. I've spent way too much time missing her or thinking what I could do to make her feel happy. It's her problem, not mine. I believe I will come out even stronger out from this one. I get out from this knowing that at least I tried, I did open up. And sure, we had fun as well.

[Elok]

While I have no real experience dating, my general feeling (for what it's worth) is that dishonesty needs to be a deal breaker if she doesn't recognize it, own it, and fix the fault quickly. Lies have a way of growing, and if she senses that you are willing to tolerate them--whatever her reasons for dishonesty/manipulation may be--I have no doubt that she will push the boundaries further and further to see how far she can take them. So you're doing the right thing.

For whatever my ignorant opinion is worth; I went on two dates with one girl in college, got let's-be-friends, dated a second girl and hey look our seventh wedding anniversary is coming up. So I'd have no idea how to navigate the waters you're in.

[Pekka]

While I have no real experience dating, my general feeling (for what it's worth) is that dishonesty needs to be a deal breaker if she doesn't recognize it, own it, and fix the fault quickly. Lies have a way of growing, and if she senses that you are willing to tolerate them--whatever her reasons for dishonesty/manipulation may be--I have no doubt that she will push the boundaries further and further to see how far she can take them. So you're doing the right thing.

For whatever my ignorant opinion is worth; I went on two dates with one girl in college, got let's-be-friends, dated a second girl and hey look our seventh wedding anniversary is coming up. So I'd have no idea how to navigate the waters you're in.

Yah, agreed. Good for you, Elok!

I talked to my cousin again, who I trust and who is also a female so I take her word for these things better than males.

I just told her some examples of what's happened, and she was "****.... what a *****". And she knows I've had very strong feelings for her, so she gives me an advice of "so, basically you feel appreciated and good with her - the good times. But the bad times keep going on, do you really want to be treated like that in long term?"

No. She needs to be respectful. The way I am. Or any decent person would be. I'll take a screwed comment or two every now and then, especially if there is a reason for it, or bad times, and it can be discussed later. If it's mostly me taking crap for no obvious reason, it cannot be discussed and somehow it ends up being my fault. Just saying, it's not my fault every time. I am not an *******. Anyone who knows me IRL knows that I am polite and nice. Always have been. Even if I'm angry, I'm generally respectful. I was somewhat respectful even to my ex when she was being horrible.

Get this, she had the nerve to call me "brain cancer boy" on a cruise I paid for. With a smirk on her face. Later, as I said that made me feel bad and uncomfortable, in a vert non-chalant manner she said it was a joke and thouthg I could take it. The very fact that I had the check up THE NEXT DAY makes it even more ... thoughtless. LAter she "apologised" saying he did not mean to make me feel bad, and it did not come out of malice.

Looking back at it, not convinced. I figure she was seeing how I react to it and if she can get away with it. It was funny, to her. Yes we share a dark sense of humor, and I take a good comedic punch, but the timing was so bad, that as if it is my fault to be upset about it. A normal person with empathy would feel _bad_ if they said that to a person they liked and the came forward that it was not cool or funny at all. The reply is not "I thougth you coudl take it".

Why not just puch my in the face and "I thought you could take it". Previous does not make it cool.

I've been too embarrased to tell this to my cousin, she was horrified. Respectful as in not telling you what to do, but think about it, really think about it. And I get it. I feel less sad all the time. Soon, it won't feel like a loss at all.

But I blame my mom for this, critique of others and their behavior has always been sort of forbidden. Be nice, nicer, understand the other person.

Well **** that, understand to a point but confront their asses for bad behaviour, set limits and if does not work, show them the door out. That's the way to deal with it. No more Mr. Nice Guy. It's reality check up now.

[rah]

It is possible your sister was just being a play back machine to reinforce and sound supportive.
I don't know her so take it for what it is. I do agree mostly.

[Pekka]

Could be (my cousin). Her advices were more generic, as in if it does not feel good, why would you keep having it. If she does not discuss with you now, what makes you think it'll get any better in the future, when the beginning should be more open, or it's easier to be more open now than later.

True on all accounts. I feel strongly I've been played, and I do not feel like playing back. Or continuing this game. If she never contacts me or wants to apologise for anything, then I have no incentive to pursue her anymore. If my adult emotional needs to openyl talk about things, even negative ones, forego with childish behavior. I already have two kids, don't need a 3rd one. I just have 0 trust in her. Not talking about cheating, talking about trust in terms of her being respectful. I do nto need extra respect, normal level is enough. Normal level is... normal level that you show to your every day people, your friends, everyone. for example, you don't tell them to **** off and give them silent treatment for weeks on end without explanation or even discussion afterwards. Especially when dating. I shudder the thought of living together. It would be, ugh, no. For a day or two it works. I don't think it works for, say a week. I think I am being honest to myself that I would end up hating her so bad after a week that I regretted I wanted to try a week.

Also sick of her using sex as a tool. Sure, people do that, but she has hyperdrive for it. She masturbates right next to me even though I would feel like having sex. She even says it to me, "I'm going to masturbate, but I don't want any sex with you now, sorry". And then she just goes at it. What the hell is that?

[Ming]

Also sick of her using sex as a tool. Sure, people do that, but she has hyperdrive for it. She masturbates right next to me even though I would feel like having sex. She even says it to me, "I'm going to masturbate, but I don't want any sex with you now, sorry". And then she just goes at it. What the hell is that?

Out of all the things you have said about this relationship... this pretty much sums it up.
RUN