Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Dauphin]

I'm harassing?

For someone who pickets abortion clinics that's hilarious.

[Ben Kenobi]

Let's see... stalking me. Googling me. Posting what you find on another site, etc. Pretty sure that's all against site rules, dude. What about me do you find so intriguing?

Am I that bad boy you always envied?

[Dauphin]

You are so cute.

[Ben Kenobi]

I love that you posted that thread, where even the posters who disagreed with me ended up siding with me

[kentonio]

At the time, in the 1960s, say we put a price on the land at what would now be 100/acre. That would be 2.3 billion acres, so about 230 billion dollars total.

Did you just value the entire American owned territory at only $230 billion? You didn't just do that did you? Because that would be really ****ing retarded even by your standards..

[kentonio]

We bought our land from the provincial government. Same as everyone else here. Are we responsible for something that we did not do?

No. We don't. Not if we paid for it.

Actually you do, and whats more if you had prior knowledge that the possession was stolen you'd be guilty of a serious crime yourself. Having a history degree and all, I assume you ARE aware of the genocide and land thefts from the Native American people?

I guess we'll just have to add it to your growing crime sheet.

[Ben Kenobi]

Did you just value the entire American owned territory at only $230 billion? You didn't just do that did you, because that would be really ****ing retarded even by your standards?

That's actually quite a bit more than the land was worth in 1867 when the US bought Alaska. Why would they be compensated for the current value of the land, which includes all the improvements made in several hundred years?

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually you do, and whats more if you had prior knowledge that the possession was stolen you'd be guilty of a serious crime yourself. Having a history degree and all, I assume you ARE aware of the genocide and land thefts from the Native American people?

One, we bought the land fair and square from the provincial government, have paid the taxes on it ever since. If it gets taken away than we wish to be compensated for the present value of the land, including the improvements we have made to the land over time.

If the provincial government was selling land that it did not have the right to sell, then the obligation is on the provincial government, not us, to make it right.

Our family isn't even from BC. How are we responsible for 'taking the land away', when we never dealt with the tribes?

[kentonio]

That's actually quite a bit more than the land was worth in 1867 when the US bought Alaska. Why would they be compensated for the current value of the land, which includes all the improvements made in several hundred years?

Because you prevented them from developing those resources themselves over that time, and any attempt to say 'oh but they wouldn't have!' is doomed to failure. The mineral resources extracted alone would be in the many trillions.

[kentonio]

One, we bought the land fair and square from the provincial government, have paid the taxes on it ever since. If it gets taken away than we wish to be compensated for the present value of the land, including the improvements we have made to the land over time.

If the provincial government was selling land that it did not have the right to sell, then the obligation is on the provincial government, not us, to make it right.

Our family isn't even from BC. How are we responsible for 'taking the land away', when we never dealt with the tribes?

None of that matters, you were aware that a crime was commited and you sought to profit from it. Legally you would not only be due no compensation but you'd also be liable for prosecution for receiving stolen goods.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because you prevented them from developing those resources themselves over that time, and any attempt to say 'oh but they wouldn't have!' is doomed to failure. The mineral resources extracted alone would be in the many trillions.

Given that many of the resources weren't discovered until afterwards, and only because folks came here and settled, I don't see their argument. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to compensate, say for oil rights that now exist given that had the land been purchased, it would have been purchased long before these resources were discovered.

Had the land not been bought and settled, it would not be worth what it is today.

[Ben Kenobi]

None of that matters

Yes, actually it does. The province is the legitimate authority from which to buy land. We didn't deal with the tribes, so we are not responsible. The province, however, would be.

, you were aware that a crime was commited and you sought to profit from it.

Given that the province claims to be able to sell land legally, no we would not be held responsible for buying land from them.

Legally you would not only be due no compensation but you'd also be liable for prosecution for receiving stolen goods.

If that were the case then the province could not sell land. I strongly suspect that rather than see their ability to sell the land within the province be curtailed that they will uphold that all the transfers were done legally, thus we could not be held responsible for buying from a legitimate seller.

Fr'nstance, if I buy a stolen television from Wal Mart - Wal Mart would be liable for the sale. Same with the provincial government.

What would happen is that the provincial government would then be liable to recompense for the value of the loss. In our case, what the land would have been worth when the Provincial government acquired it, not what the land is worth now, that improvements have been made to it. Nor could they confiscate the land from the current owners.

[kentonio]

Given that many of the resources weren't discovered until afterwards, and only because folks came here and settled, I don't see their argument. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to compensate, say for oil rights that now exist given that had the land been purchased, it would have been purchased long before these resources were discovered.

Had the land not been bought and settled, it would not be worth what it is today.

Oh you mean you didn't know about the vast mineral riches when you slaughtered the natives and stole their land? Oh that's ok then..

[kentonio]

Yes, actually it does. The province is the legitimate authority from which to buy land. We didn't deal with the tribes, so we are not responsible. The province, however, would be.

Given that the province claims to be able to sell land legally, no we would not be held responsible for buying land from them.

Sure you would, if you knew it was stolen land. If a thief tells you they are a car salesman, that doesn't make it ok to buy a car you know is stolen from them.

If that were the case then the province could not sell land. I strongly suspect that rather than see their ability to sell the land within the province be curtailed that they will uphold that all the transfers were done legally, thus we could not be held responsible for buying from a legitimate seller.

Fr'nstance, if I buy a stolen television from Wal Mart - Wal Mart would be liable for the sale. Same with the provincial government.

What would happen is that the provincial government would then be liable to recompense for the value of the loss. In our case, what the land would have been worth when the Provincial government acquired it, not what the land is worth now, that improvements have been made to it. Nor could they confiscate the land from the current owners.

Actually if you bought a stolen TV from Walmart, then the very best you could hhope for would be to make a case against Walmart for the value of the TV (which would be taken from you and returned to its original owner regardless). If you knew it was a stolen TV when you bought it, then you would also be prosecuted.

Why are you finding this very simple concept so difficult to understand? Possession is not nine tenths of the law, as much as people would like to imagine it is.

[Proteus_MST]

Yes, actually it does. The province is the legitimate authority from which to buy land. We didn't deal with the tribes, so we are not responsible. The province, however, would be.

Given that the province claims to be able to sell land legally, no we would not be held responsible for buying land from them.

I am not sure about the american or canadian principles for jurisdiction,
but in germany there is one important principle: "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht" (Ignorance doesn't protect from punishment)
i.e. even if you didn't know that you broke a law, you may still be eligible for punishment
So, even if you didn't know that you purchased stolen goods, you may still be punished for it (and even if it "just" by having to return the goods without compensation.
(which wouldn't mean that you (and other land owners) wouldn't be free to sue the provincial government for compensation, of course, but it would be a separate lawsuit (from the one that forced you to give the lands back to the native americans))