Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23186261/ns/world_news-europe/t/canada-extradites-nazi-war-criminal-italy/

Damn... Found this article on one of Bens relatives.

[Ben Kenobi]

I didn't know you liked Whataburger so much

[Proteus_MST]

It's right to take land away from people who bought and paid for it? No, Proteus it's not.

If you extort or steal something and another person buys the extortet/stolen items .... and you get caught ...
the person who bought the things has to give them back, free of charge, despite the fact that s/he had paid money for the thing.

...The fact of the matter is that the debt has already been paid.

Definitely not.
The colonists took away from the indians lands that were very fertile and/or had lots of natural resources (sometimes gold) ...
they put them into reservates that were on land, so barren, that no european colonist would settle there.

Considering the fact that the indians thanks to the relocation were forced to be fed by the state (not because theyx were lazy people, but because the land was so barren that they couldn't sustain themselves ... whereas on the lands taken away from them, they could have fed themselves.
And considering the fact that the land taken from the indians produces revenues for the whites till today (in case of lands with natural resources that could be profit that goes into the millions or billions) the debt surely hasn't been paid ... rather it is the minimum duty the USA have against those whose land they took via embezzlement and force


Btw. what do you think of the concept of Lebensraum im Osten?
It is actually almost the same as manifest destiny .... the aryan races need room to expand, thereforte it is our duty and destiny, to take the lands from the slavic people in eastern europe. We will allow them to resettle in regions like siberia, of course, unless those regions contain natural resources we need to exploit

[Ben Kenobi]

If you extort or steal something and another person buys the extortet/stolen items .... and you get caught ...

We bought our land from the provincial government. Same as everyone else here. Are we responsible for something that we did not do?

the person who bought the things has to give them back, free of charge, despite the fact that s/he had paid money for the thing.

No. We don't. Not if we paid for it.

The colonists took away from the indians lands that were very fertile and/or had lots of natural resources (sometimes gold) ...

they put them into reservates that were on land, so barren, that no european colonist would settle there.

Not really. When they came there were not that many people living in North America. There were more than enough room for both. The Europeans did purchase the land, in the sense of trading things that they wanted to the Natives.

The whole part of the reservations came after - when the Natives did not want the colonists there and attacked them. So the colonists defended themselves and continued to attack and take them over.

Considering the fact that the indians thanks to the relocation were forced to be fed by the state (not because theyx were lazy people, but because the land was so barren that they couldn't sustain themselves ... whereas on the lands taken away from them, they could have fed themselves.

You're saying they were peaceful? That was never the case. There were conflicts all through the period from say the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries between both sides.

And considering the fact that the land taken from the indians produces revenues for the whites till today (in case of lands with natural resources that could be profit that goes into the millions or billions) the debt surely hasn't been paid ... rather it is the minimum duty the USA have against those whose land they took via embezzlement and force

Given that the lands have been developed considerably in that period, they have no claim to the resources that were explored and developed in that time. Again - they fought and they lost. They could have chosen to do so peacefully, as Canada did. We signed treaties with them, apportioning them land on their tribal territories which they retain.

Btw. what do you think of the concept of Lebensraum im Osten?

Couple points here. What qualified as Lebensraum im Osten?

My family is from Ostpreuben. There is a German claim to some of the land in Poland. Especially in the area surrounding Koenigsberg. Then you have Breslau and Silesia.

I think that Germany does have a claim to Pommern, Pomerania, Ostpreuben and Silesia. Even Danzig for that matter.

Beyond that? No.

It is actually almost the same as manifest destiny .... the aryan races need room to expand, thereforte it is our duty and destiny, to take the lands from the slavic people in eastern europe. We will allow them to resettle in regions like siberia, of course, unless those regions contain natural resources we need to exploit

The problem is this - the native population today is better because the land is settled, populated and developed. British Columbia was a backwater for a long time and it was only in the 1870s that they began to be connected... to anywhere. And even then it was a difficult, difficult task. BC is not easy country to live in - even now. There are far more people now - because of the development that has taken place. The land could not sustain itself back on the fishing and hunting economy - that is why there were few people in that particular region.

This is similar to most of the Western United States. Should we apologize that their living standards are far higher today than it was back then? That they have benefitted greatly from development? No.

Let me put it in perspective. I have a classmate that I went to school with. Her schooling was fully funded by the government because she came from a Tribe in Canada. Her family is partially native, and partially white.

Disbursing benefits on the basis of race is wrong. What am I to say to the Sikh student who is also in my class, and try to explain to him why she gets money and she does not?

The debt has been paid, long ago. I feel no need to apologize when they get free schooling, that I did not get. You tell me about privilege, that is a significant benefit. That you cannot make it and thrive on free education - that is not because white people are keeping you down, but rather - the results of choices made by the individual.

[Aeson]

Ben has gone full out socialist ... it's ok for the government to take any land or possessions away from anyone because if in doing so the person becomes impopverished eventually they get paid the seized property's value (ignoring interest and pulling numbers out of your ass to make it work of course) by being stuck on welfare for generations to come.

[Aeson]

Ben the pinko is cheerleading for nationalization and the welfare state

[Ben Kenobi]

it's ok for the government to take any land or possessions away from anyone because if in doing so the person becomes impopverished eventually they get paid the seized property's value (ignoring interest and pulling numbers out of your ass to make it work of course) by being stuck on welfare for generations to come.

The numbers are correct. Current unimproved value of the land would be about 100 dollars per acre, and that is for the entire United States, including Alaska. If they had been paid lump sum, it would have amounted to around 45k per person, in today's dollars.

Welfare has paid them more than they would have received from lump sum compensation. That's not including the ancillary benefits that development has provided, increased standards of living and every other social benefits, including Medicare, social security etc.

If we look at the value at the time, the Alaska purchase was about 2 cents per acre, which would reduce the total value of the compensation to about 9 dollars per person for 5 million native Americans.

9 dollars in 1869 would amount to about 150 dollars today, per person.

Basically, the land just wasn't worth that much, even in 1869. Lump sum wouldn't have covered very much at all.

[Giancarlo]

Ben buys food stamp cards after all. He is a law breaking con artist. Much like Mr. orange hair.

[Dauphin]

I recently got reminded of this. Ben got banned from a social conservative website run by Bill Whatcott, a social conservative activist who campaigns against homosexuality and abortion. His offense was being too conservative:

http://www.freenorthamerica.ca/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1427

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Whatcott

The thread title is priceless, as are the comments. I highly recommend you read the thread.

Bill Whatcott:
Ben Kenobi took it upon himself to delete most of this thread as he deemed it offensive inspite of our express wishes he don't do that.
...
After further discussion between Evolution8, myself and Ben Kenobi, we decided to ban Ben.
....
We rescinded Ben's ban even though we are really upset with the deleted posts and complete lack of respect shown us.
...
At the end of the day I paid the money for this site and I have the ban controls. If I ask for posts not to be deleted, I expect them not to be deleted regardless of how strongly you (Ben Kenobi) think otherwise.
....
Ben you really are a complete twit.....

Others:
Ben looks out for his own feelings and disregards anyone elses. I've seen him "work" before and am not surprised he deleted posts that he was told not to delete.

They then made someone Bill considerd "an utter pagan" to replace Ben as a moderator.

[Proteus_MST]

Too conservative even for the fringe conservatives .. yes, that sounds like Ben

[rah]

Nice to know he's an equal opportunity douche.

[giblets]

Ben you really are a complete twit.....

QFT

[Giancarlo]

I recently got reminded of this. Ben got banned from a social conservative website run by Bill Whatcott, a social conservative activist who campaigns against homosexuality and abortion. His offense was being too conservative:

http://www.freenorthamerica.ca/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1427

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Whatcott

The thread title is priceless, as are the comments. I highly recommend you read the thread.

Bill Whatcott:
Ben Kenobi took it upon himself to delete most of this thread as he deemed it offensive inspite of our express wishes he don't do that.
...
After further discussion between Evolution8, myself and Ben Kenobi, we decided to ban Ben.
....
We rescinded Ben's ban even though we are really upset with the deleted posts and complete lack of respect shown us.
...
At the end of the day I paid the money for this site and I have the ban controls. If I ask for posts not to be deleted, I expect them not to be deleted regardless of how strongly you (Ben Kenobi) think otherwise.
....
Ben you really are a complete twit.....

Others:
Ben looks out for his own feelings and disregards anyone elses. I've seen him "work" before and am not surprised he deleted posts that he was told not to delete.

They then made someone Bill considerd "an utter pagan" to replace Ben as a moderator.

Lol. He is like Donald Trump.

That is crazy. Too extreme for an extremist site and a total control freak too.

Thank you for posting that! It really has made my day.

[Giancarlo]

That site is repulsive after glancing at it. And they wonder why they are getting hacked. Full of nincompoop bigots. And Ben was too extreme for them. Goodness me.

[Ben Kenobi]

They then made someone Bill considerd "an utter pagan" to replace Ben as a moderator.

LOL

Bill's version is hilarious. Yes, I worked with Bill. I was also the only moderator he had worth a damn. I deleted a thread that had a drunk-ass moderator posting her phone number and soliciting sex.

At her request after she came to me and said, "please Sean, I was a dumb**** and help me fix it." Poof, done.

Bill got mad because he's a control freak. I told him I didn't care what he thought, I was deleting personal information posted up by moderators even if they were dumbass enough to put it up themselves. I felt that leaving it up was a terrible precedent, given the whole forum and the fact that others, like yourself were using it as a means to harass people. (and she did get harassing calls, but that was later).

Anyhoo. Bill disagreed. I salted the thread so he couldn't bring it back in a coherent fashion - after he restored it including the phone number. We disagreed on principles. I said I was fine leaving it, but only if I could put the thread away in a locked forum that wasn't publicly accessable. No go.

That was euhm, what, almost a decade ago now. I'm still the most prominent poster there who's not Bill and his wife. The place is completely dead. The dumb**** moderator has, thankfully, moved on after she quit after Bill canned me. Me and dumb**** moderator no longer talk because, well, she's a dumb****. Bill and I no longer talk, but that has nothing to do with this incident. It's been so long ago that Bill and I reconciled and then fell out again. We're about due for a reconciliation again, and have talked recently.

Anyways, anything else you want to dredge up, Dauphin? It's weird having groupies.