Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

I wonder what kind of slander Ben would say to trans people...

I think we really should just ignore this clown... and really ignore him.

[Ben Kenobi]

They built pyramids to worship fake deities. You are an idiot. You couldn't even address the point and now you proceeded to make something else up.

The point is that the pyramids predate Gilgamesh. By over half a millennium. There is greater distance between the Pyramids than between Gilgamesh and Abraham. It's entirely possible that the first part of Genesis records things older than Gilgamesh and entirely possible that they draw from similar sources.

Lying once again!

You think Abraham came from Israel?

You think too highly of people. People have engaged in mass slaughter of other people all the time and it still continues to this day. Civilizations and empires were often based on mass slaughter.

Then why do we have laws against Murder, etc? If people and animals are one and the same?

You are just ignorant. You don't know what you are talking about once again.

Far from it. Civilized society attempts to restrain our base impulses.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh, I know that we only have a small percentage of the books remaining ...
which is why I cannot see in christianity (and judaism and islam) more than offsprings of cults that were more ruthless and successful than other cults in erasing the historical footprints of their competition

I'm not sure I follow? Is your argument that Christianity is wrong because it has it's origins in Judaism? We're not ashamed of that in the slightest.

IIRC the differences between individual humans are bigger than that

You're wrong there. Variations between individual human beings are about .1 percent, or about 30 million base pairs.

Many states around the world (including several US states, like Texas) have death penalty ... the catholic church caused lots of people getting put down for heresy ... even the bible contains passage advocating putting down people (for example married whomen who get raped in a city and aren't heard screaming for help)

I'm not sure I see why you are citing the death penalty. The concept is that the penalty prevents blood feuds.

[Dauphin]

Then why do we have laws against Murder, etc? If people and animals are one and the same?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory

You may need to be reminded that just because A is a set of B, doesn't mean that they are identical.

[Ben Kenobi]

You may need to be reminded that just because A is a set of B, doesn't mean that they are identical.

My argument is that they are different and we should be treating people differently. Fez hasn't budged from his argument that people are worthless and we shouldn't treat them any differently. And that because some people do bad and horrible things that makes humanity in general worth little.

[Giancarlo]

The point is that the pyramids predate Gilgamesh. By over half a millennium. There is greater distance between the Pyramids than between Gilgamesh and Abraham. It's entirely possible that the first part of Genesis records things older than Gilgamesh and entirely possible that they draw from similar sources.



You think Abraham came from Israel?



Then why do we have laws against Murder, etc? If people and animals are one and the same?



Far from it. Civilized society attempts to restrain our base impulses.

Full of **** as expected. Could we expect nothing less? Now he is talking about fairytales and floods lmao.

[Giancarlo]

My argument is that they are different and we should be treating people differently. Fez hasn't budged from his argument that people are worthless and we shouldn't treat them any differently. And that because some people do bad and horrible things that makes humanity in general worth little.

You are ****ing stupid. I never said people are worthless. Keep making **** up, clown. Idiot. Religion has screwed up your mind.

[Ben Kenobi]

You think too highly of people. People have engaged in mass slaughter of other people all the time and it still continues to this day. Civilizations and empires were often based on mass slaughter.

You're saying I think too highly of people and I believe in total depravity. LOL. I believe that people have God given dignity worth and value. That is where we disagree.

[Proteus_MST]

I'm not sure I follow? Is your argument that Christianity is wrong because it has it's origins in Judaism? We're not ashamed of that in the slightest.

My argument is, that Yahwists were just the winner in the power struggle between priests of the different gods (includung YHWHs wife, Asherah) of early israelite polytheism and eradicated the scriptures of the losers
Therefore I don't see a reason to belief that Yahwism (and its offspring Christianity and Islam) are more true than, for example egyptian polytheism (or its short time monotheism under Amun-Rah), Zoroastrism, Hinduism or other religions.
I don't have a problem to think that religions point to something that science deosn't understand (yet), but I see no reason to think that there is one religion that can claim "I am the true religion, follow any other religion (or violate any of my commandments) and you will suffer in your afterlife for eternity" (not even if the religion has a followership that has a followership of many milliosn to bilklions, thanks to historical successful conquests, missionary works and inquisitions).

And no, I don't see any reason to be ashamed for it ... with this I just measure Judaism (and its offpsring) with the same standards that I apply to any other religion.

(that said, I should also add that I have no problem if religion is used for the own spiritusal growth ... I only have a problem with it when people try to impose their religions rules on others, for example the gay marriage thing, pharmacists refusing to sell an adult person emergency contraceptions, parents trying to enforce teaching of the creation myth, inequal treatment of men and women (like in Hinduism and Islam) and many more)

You're wrong there. Variations between individual human beings are about .1 percent, or about 30 million base pairs.

After reading, I have to admit that you are right about the variation.
Which doesn't annihilate my other arguments considering the abilities of non human apes, however.

I'm not sure I see why you are citing the death penalty. The concept is that the penalty prevents blood feuds.

Death penalty in Texas prevents blood feuds?
Those texans surely must be an uncivilised bunch of people, considering that other states/western countries don't have a higher number of blood feuds, despite the fact that they don't have death penalties anymore.

[Ben Kenobi]

My argument is, that Yahwists were just the winner in the power struggle between priests of the different gods (includung YHWHs wife, Asherah) of early israelite polytheism and eradicated the scriptures of the losers

The problem is that there's no real record for this. The argument that Israelites had polygamy first and then abandoned it for God, doesn't square with the sources that we do have.

Therefore I don't see a reason to belief that Yahwism (and its offspring Christianity and Islam) are more true than, for example egyptian polytheism (or its short time monotheism under Amun-Rah), Zoroastrism, Hinduism or other religions.

That's a strange argument. Egyptian religions are far older than Judaism. The argument in favor of Egyptian religions isn't that Israel was really polygamous.

I don't have a problem to think that religions point to something that science deosn't understand (yet), but I see no reason to think that there is one religion that can claim "I am the true religion, follow any other religion (or violate any of my commandments) and you will suffer in your afterlife for eternity" (not even if the religion has a followership that has a followership of many milliosn to bilklions, thanks to historical successful conquests, missionary works and inquisitions).

This was true in Ancient times too, prior to Christianity.

And no, I don't see any reason to be ashamed for it ... with this I just measure Judaism (and its offpsring) with the same standards that I apply to any other religion.

But you don't. You evaluate the truth claim of Christianity and Judaism differently. You do realize that Zoroasterianism is also monotheistic?

(that said, I should also add that I have no problem if religion is used for the own spiritusal growth ... I only have a problem with it when people try to impose their religions rules on others, for example the gay marriage thing, pharmacists refusing to sell an adult person emergency contraceptions, parents trying to enforce teaching of the creation myth, inequal treatment of men and women (like in Hinduism and Islam) and many more)

No, what you're really saying is that you are upset that Christianity disagrees with you. The problem is not really the religion, the problem is you. "Imposing religion", well you're doing that on us - by forcing us to pay for contraception and abortion. The whole homeschooling argument is a fine example.

[Giancarlo]

You're saying I think too highly of people and I believe in total depravity. LOL. I believe that people have God given dignity worth and value. That is where we disagree.

You are an idiot. And you just keep proving it time and time again. There is no god so stop it with this nonsense. People have worth, but not from some stupid ****ing god.

[Berzerker]

Ben, do you realize you've given your blessing to our fall from grace?

"Human society" was bestowed upon us by the Serpent, not God. You just argued we're better because of the tree

[Giancarlo]

No.

It was bestowed to us by Ra.

No...

I think Hera...

No wait...

Ataguchu (Incan god of creation)...

Oh... wait... I got it...

The Flying Spaghetti Monster! Now that's it! It was the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

Everybody has their own story to make them feel better as to why the exist.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, do you realize you've given your blessing to our fall from grace?

Why would you think that?

"Human society" was bestowed upon us by the Serpent, not God. You just argued we're better because of the tree

One, humanity has value because they are made in the image of God. Two I don't believe we can have a human society without Him. And before you get to getting, "what about societies before Christ?" To that I can only reply that much of what is in the bible is reflected in other societies, though much is not.

I would argue they have imperfect understanding of Christ. I had a chance to visit some Sikh friends and we talked about this - about how we share many virtues.

[Giancarlo]

One, humanity has value because they are made in the image of God. Two I don't believe we can have a human society without Him. And before you get to getting, "what about societies before Christ?" To that I can only reply that much of what is in the bible is reflected in other societies, though much is not.

I would argue they have imperfect understanding of Christ. I had a chance to visit some Sikh friends and we talked about this - about how we share many virtues.

The image of which god? Ra? Hera? Zeus? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

My god has a bigger dick than your god - George Carlin

By the way, societies exist just fine without religion and being secular. Grow up!