Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

Overpopulation is no myth. 6 billion people is way too many and considering we are seeing the disappearance of fresh water and resources, you may want to rethink your statements.

Again, TFR is 2.4 for the world. This is not overpopulation in the slightest. This is solid, steady population growth.

How many people do you believe would be the 'right' number?

[Proteus_MST]

It does. That is my point. Our disagreement isn't really over what Giancarlo does in the bedroom, but rather, what we believe is the purpose of sex.

I don't think that there is any disagreement about the purpose of sex.
The disagreement lies within the question, whether sex without the intention of procreation should be allowed or not

This would indicate a physiological defect on the part of one or both partners. The reason we would suspect this is because sex between a healthy man and a healthy woman should lead to pregnancy.

That's what I am talking about, yes.
So should an infertile couple abstain from sex and be disallowed from marrying, as they cannot produce any offspring?

Are you suggesting that a homosexual man is sterile?

Nope ... and he could actually father a child, by using a surrogate mother (which AFAIK is legal in the USA).
Similarly a lesbian couple could have children by using artificial insemination.

Both ledgal practrices which are used by heterosexual (married) couples as well, if one of them is infertile

[Giancarlo]

Again, TFR is 2.4 for the world. This is not overpopulation in the slightest. This is solid, steady population growth.

How many people do you believe would be the 'right' number?

It's already overpopulated, fool. I know that's hard for you to understand. We don't need "solid" population growth. We already have too many ****ing people in this world.

[Ben Kenobi]

So, Giancarlo, what is the "right" number?

[Giancarlo]

So, Giancarlo, what is the "right" number?

And alas he didn't even address my point. He came up with another stupid loaded question.

[Ben Kenobi]

The disagreement lies within the question, whether sex without the intention of procreation should be allowed or not

No one here is arguing what society should ban or not. What is being argued is what is the purpose of sex.

So should an infertile couple abstain from sex and be disallowed from marrying, as they cannot produce any offspring?

According to canon law?

Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

§3. Sterility neither prohibits nor nullifies marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of canon 1098.

As for society in general - I am not arguing that Catholic canon law should govern the civil marriage regulations.

he could actually father a child, by using a surrogate mother (which AFAIK is legal in the USA).

Or father a child by having sex with a woman. The point being that - there is no impediment, and his situation is the same as someone deliberately contracepting.

[Ben Kenobi]

And alas he didn't even address my point. He came up with another stupid loaded question.

Answer the question, Giancarlo.

[Giancarlo]

Answer the question, Giancarlo.

No. I will not.

You need to understand not everyone lives by your standards and there are already too many people in this world. Do you know many people die of starvation every day? Yet you want more population growth... you're just a fool in every sense.

The purpose of sex for me? Showing my love to my boyfriend and being intimate with him. Don't like that explanation? Well that's too ****ing bad I suppose.

[Ben Kenobi]

No. I will not.

LOL, then your argument fails. If you're unwilling to state what is the 'correct' level of population, you cannot declare that the current level is 'overpopulated.'

[Proteus_MST]

...
As for society in general - I am not arguing that Catholic canon law should govern the civil marriage regulations.

...

In this case I guess you also shouldn't be against civil marriages by homosexuals ... as you said for yourself, catholic marriages and civil marriages are distinct (and therefore the one should not have to obey the laws of the other one)

[Giancarlo]

LOL, then your argument fails. If you're unwilling to state what is the 'correct' level of population, you cannot declare that the current level is 'overpopulated.'

Why would it fail? Because I didn't answer your bull**** question? You didn't address my other points and you opened up with some stupid bull**** question. The world population should probably be HALF of what it is. And birth rates are disturbingly high in many parts of the world.

[Ming]

NFP doesn't teach that - all it teaches (at least Billings does) is to check your cervical mucus.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... It teaches you when is the best time to conceive if you want kids, and the best time to avoid sex so that you don't conceive. It's called family planning for a reason. It DOES TEACH CATHOLICS HOW TO AVOID HAVING CHILDREN. You should read up on it. I've looked at many Catholic web sites on family planning, and they are quite clear about how to use to avoid conception. Maybe you will look at them too when you start having sex... but you better hurry, you are getting a little long in the tooth.

So as usual, you are full of ****.

Nice try... but you lose yet again.

And you still haven't given a reasonable answer about old people and infertile couples. Based on your silly ass logic, they shouldn't have sex since it won't produce a child.
And your last answer was lame an not relevant.

[Ben Kenobi]

In this case I guess you also shouldn't be against civil marriages by homosexuals ... as you said for yourself, catholic marriages and civil marriages are distinct (and therefore the one should not have to obey the laws of the other one)

Not if I believe that the state derives a benefit from marriage in general and maintaining the definition between one man and one woman.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why would it fail? Because I didn't answer your bull**** question?

Your assertion that 6 billion is too many presupposes that there is a level of population that is the correct population. What is that level?

[Ming]

maintaining the definition between one man and one woman.

That's your definition... and you are welcome to it. However, people are welcome to their own definition.
If you don't want to marry a guy, nobody is forcing you. So stop forcing people from doing what they want... and what is perfectly legal.