Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

People learn social behavior much much better when they are together with other children. They learn to respect others ways of living, hear about other opinions (than the ones in the narrow environment of their homes) and how to interact in a (hopefully) harmonious way with other people/children.

That's not socialization. That's indoctrination. What you are really saying is that you believe that all children should believe the same thing so we need government schools to teach them these things so that they do believe these things. What does any of that have to do with education?

This cannot be learned as well by homeschooling but only by interaction with other children.

It has nothing to do with 'interaction between other children' It has everything to do with the state curricula and the state enforcing it's beliefs on children.

Also people who grow up in such a more diverse environment (where they grow up with other children) are harder to indoctrinate (to a religion/way of living, or even to become terrorists)

Not so. All you've actually done is traded ideologies.

I actually don't think that the catholic church can complain.
Most "catholic clinics" that the catholic church runs in germany are so heavily subsidized by the german government, that the caztholic church only has to pay a fraction of the running costs, as almost all costs are provided for by those governmental subsidies.

I would rather that we stood on our own two feet.

Nevertheless you get the full PR effect for those hospitals (as many people believe, that "catholic hospitals" are totally run by the catholic church .. and can even impose your own rules on the selection of employees who are allowed to work there (for example no divorced or homosexual people)

For now, perhaps, but whomever pays will ultimately decide what goes down.

I am sure the subsidies to the RCC alone (since WW2) make up more than the worth of the things that were confiscated long ago

Some things are irreplaceable.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yeah, got to keep the Vatican supplied with golden thrones, priceless artwork and lawyers for all those priests.

The Vatican is in Germany?

Do they even teach geography in England.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nowhere did he say that homosexuality wasn't a sin... Nowhere did he say that the RCC should change it's views on homosexuality...
But he did say the church (some catholics) have treated gays badly... and that discrimination should end.

And how have they been treated badly? Francis did not specify anything of the sort.

Only some people want to cloak their bigotry, hatred, and discrimination under the cover of religion...

Ok. So stating that homosexual acts is a sin is hatred and bigotry?

I guess since you disagree with him, we know where you fall on the subject.

That anyone can repent and be forgiven?

[Proteus_MST]

What is the key to your success?

Good funding of the schools by the state. And also a centralized planning of standards for all schools and for tghe distribution of teachers among the schools in the whole country. It also means, for example, that the questions for the Abiturprüfung (graduation exams of the Gymnasium) arrive in sealed envelopes at the school, that are only opened during the exam itself and therefore not even the teachers know the content of the exam questions.


Our only problem children are "Hauptschulen" (we have a tripartite school system after elementary: Hauptschule -> allows their graduates (only) to go into an apprenticeship ... Realschule -> graduates are allowed to attend technical colleges ... and Gymnasium -> graduates are allowed to attendf university)

Over the decades Hauptschulen have become a melting pot of social problem cases, as all kids (whose grades during elementary school allow it) go either to Realschulen or Gymnasiums. This results in Hauptschulen becoming a melting pot of kids who already see themselves as outsiders (for example because of their lack of successes during elementary school) with a high percentage of foreigners. A mix which also makes new teachers at Hauptschulen become disillusioned pretty fast.

But unless you have to go to a Hauptschule, you get a good education at german public schools.
The only thing that german schools are lacking are workshops like US schools seem to possess ... where they learn technical practical skills (that's sopmething most people only learn when/if they go into an apprenticeship after school, for a technical profession

[Kidlicious]

Students at our schools fall behind in the basics in early elementary. It's hard to say why.

[Proteus_MST]

That's not socialization. That's indoctrination. What you are really saying is that you believe that all children should believe the same thing so we need government schools to teach them these things so that they do believe these things. What does any of that have to do with education?

It has nothing to do with 'interaction between other children' It has everything to do with the state curricula and the state enforcing it's beliefs on children.

Not so. All you've actually done is traded ideologies.

Not really ... our public schools have a mix of people of different cultural background, but also among different religions.
In my time at school, for example most of the pupils were either catholic or evangelical.
And they also got religious lessons at schools according to their confession (i.e. separate for evangelicals and catholics) ... so they even were educated in their own faith.
(and, during certain festive days of their confession might also have to attend to service at the local church, together as a school course )
(But not only about their own faith ... religious lessons, at least in my case (i.e. evangelical) also included one year in which thew main topic was basic knowledge about other religions ... I assume the lessons for the catholic pupils included this as well)

So they have every opportunity to get knowledge about things outside of their own culture and religion (something which, IMHO, is doubly important for kids with muslim background nowadays)

Parents who want to indoctrinate their kids into believing, that a god created the world 6000 years ago can still do so, outside of school ...
but they should expect their kids to fail at Biology (evolution) and Geography (earths history) lessons in this case

I would rather that we stood on our own two feet.

Well, your church however seems to be quite happy with the things the german government provides

[Ming]

And how have they been treated badly? Francis did not specify anything of the sort.
Ok. So stating that homosexual acts is a sin is hatred and bigotry?
That anyone can repent and be forgiven?

Only in Benland does BK know better than the Pope.
At least the Pope is trying to act like a true Christian and follow the teachings of Jesus, showing love to all human beings... Unlike BK who supports discrimination.

[kentonio]

Homeschooled children can and do socialize; in the US, "homeschool groups" are increasingly the norm, where large clusters of families will meet up fairly regularly for their kids to play and learn together. They just don't socialize with the gangbanger crowd, and "no bullying" can be actually enforced.

They also don't get to socialize with kids whose parents might hold views that run contrary to their own parents. Apart from those cases where the schools are genuinely bad or dangerous, all too often its an excuse to try and shelter kids off into a little bubble where they'll only hear the kinds of information their parents think they should hear. Indoctrination at its worse.

[Jon Miller]

If you take your kids to soccer/etc they still can. It really depends on the type of homeschool. Just like public/private school.

I think that homeschool isn't for everyone. My cousin for example. Or any family where the parents are not dedicated to education and really focused on it.

Considering the hours that a kid spends in school, you shouldn't send them there if you are primarily opposed to the social education they are getting there.

JM
(Homeschooled 3 years, skipped 1 year and attended private school for 1 year, meaning I attended 7 years of public school. I always found public school to be a strange and unpleasant place.)

[Elok]

"Indoctrination" is when children learn values we disagree with. When they learn--just as slavishly and unquestioningly, because they are children--values we do agree with, it's simply responsible childrearing. Homeschooling parents are often (but not always) motivated by a desire to have their children learn their own values and not those of the wider community (which are generally openly hostile to the parents'). I would argue that this is a reasonable expectation. Of course it's more congenial for everyone to have a common set of beliefs, but like I said, this is part of the long-term process of American cultural bifurcation. At this point, I don't believe that process can be halted, least of all by a ham-handed attempt to subvert one side's children. At any rate, it seems dishonest to say that this is about "diversity" or "bubbles" if the whole point of opposing homeschooling is to stamp out eccentric/unwanted belief systems.

[ZEE]

Elok is a nerd.

[Jon Miller]

Based on my experience with them I would really investigate before sending my child to any school.

I know people who bought houses in expensive areas and commute long durations for better schools. I know people who bought houses in other cities and send their kids/parents to live there so that they can get a decent education at a public school (if you have 2+ kids, this can be just as expensive as a private school).

Kuci/etc seem to have gone to a good school academically. I am not certain about the cultural, although it is obvious the culture of the elite. Many of my friends from Minnesota seem to have gone to good/decent schools both in academics and cultural. My school, and many of the schools I know about in Oregon, were atrocious on both fronts.

Of course, by the time I send my daughter to school, it would have been 20-30 years since the relevant experiences.

JM

[Elok]

Honestly, the things that most alarm me about public schools are the bad behaviors of children who attend, quite unrelated to ideology. I don't just mean the wee gangbangers--my kids would in any case be safely cloistered in gifted classes, away from those, and only have to deal with them in the hallways--I mean the way the kids feel a constant, morbid hunger for stimulation. Even the good ones snack incessantly in class, like cattle grazing, and seem incapable of going more than thirty seconds without checking their phones. I want my kids to grow up capable of accepting stillness and silence. Escaping various obnoxious and manufactured corporate trends would also be cool, but that's mostly for my sake.

[rah]

I think it's a bit like early day care. Kid's get better attention if they have a stay at home mom, but in day care they're exposed to all the germs and their immunity system learns to defend them so that when they enter Kindergarten they don't get the crap beat out of them my all the typical illnesses that all the other kids have had.

Home schooling (if done properly) can probably provide them a slightly better education but not preparing them for all the evils of real life and when they finally leave the protective bubble that their parents provided them they will be ill prepared and get the crap beat out of them in the real world.

[Jon Miller]

Homeschool doesn't need to be a complete protective bubble, just like a kid staying at home doesn't need to be a complete protective bubble.

There is a difference between being put out into the wild for 80% of the day and being put out in the wild for 0% of the day. Obvious numbers are 10 or 20 or 40%, for example.

JM
(We actually favor a couple of half days a week at a Montessori as a compromise, for example. This isn't possible with standard schooling, but there are lots of activities that one can be involved in that are smaller than 80% but more than 0%. Probably we will end up trying to find the best school we can and just live with it, since neither of us have the time or inclination for homeschool (my wife is eager to go back to work).)