Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ming]

Which courts and where? Oberfell said nothing about this.

One more time... the bakers had their day in court and were ruled against. They lost and had to pay a fine.
And if I remember correctly, you said the appeal would go all the way to the supreme court and that the ruling would be overturned... and how is that one going so far...

[Ben Kenobi]

One more time... the bakers had their day in court and were ruled against. They lost and had to pay a fine.
And if I remember correctly, you said the appeal would go all the way to the supreme court and that the ruling would be overturned... and how is that one going so far...

That is why I asked which courts and where. This was in the state of Oregon, so, no. Then the First trumps, unless you believe that the constitution takes a backseat to state laws.

[Ming]

Just like Catholics were not forced to pay for abortion in this country? What religious freedom?

Obama has stated that the Catholic church should do homosexual marriage. Is Obama part of this 'small minority'?



Then why is Obama saying stuff like this?

http://nationalreport.net/obama-will-revoke-tax-exempt-status-churches-refuse-wed-gays/

I question your assessment that this is a 'small minority'. I would argue that a majority of so-called Democrats support it wholeheartedly.

Gee... he is said he MIGHT take your tax advantages away if you didn't. His opinion is that Christians should join the present and get rid of their discriminatory ways.
He said he would like to see that happen... And yes, many Democrats think Christians are a bunch of bigots.

But, please show me any actual laws or legislation that he has put forward on this subject.
From reading your highly biased piece, I just saw opinions... and negative interpretations of what he was actually saying.

When the laws are actually written, then I will believe you... but it isn't going to happen.
That piece was one big fear mongoring.

[rah]

http://nationalreport.net/obama-will...fuse-wed-gays/

A site with the picture of Cruz and Palin at the top. No bias there.

And where in the quote

In America, our progressive values are what sets us apart from the rest of the world. We simply cannot tolerate those who stand in the way of such advancement. The bigoted, and superstitious mindsets of the past have no place in our modern society. Excluding homosexuals from their civil rights is a stance that the federal government will not tolerate.”

Does it say that he said he would force the catholic church to marry gays in their church. (CLUE) it doesn't.
This is typical fear mongering. I would expect only the ignorant to fall for it. OF course sometimes people live up to the expectations.

You keep trying to modify the discussion.
It's simple. Your pope said lighten up. Pretty straight forward. What part of his apology did you not understand>

another x-post. At least I'm not the only person that thought it.

[Ming]

That is why I asked which courts and where. This was in the state of Oregon, so, no. Then the First trumps, unless you believe that the constitution takes a backseat to state laws.

You are welcome to your opinion... and if you are right, it will be overturned on appeal... and again, how is that appeal going.

[Jon Miller]

The Catholic Priests are not offering 'marriage'. They are offering 'Catholic marriage'. The same with Adventist pastors; in fact, they usually won't marry you even if you are both Christian if both of you aren't Adventist.

The baker is not offering 'Catholic cake' or anything of the sort. They are just offering cake.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

You are welcome to your opinion... and if you are right, it will be overturned on appeal... and again, how is that appeal going.

It may be overturned, it may not be heard, either way - the First prevails despite whatever the court does or doesn't. Justice is justice. We'll continue fighting for it and fighting against it and resisting this every time it comes up.

[Ben Kenobi]

The baker is not offering 'Catholic cake' or anything of the sort. They are just offering cake.

Then why was their offer of a blank cake rejected if all they are providing is a cake?

[Ming]

Oh... and just in case you missed it...

The Colorado Supreme Court will not review the case of a Denver-area “cake artist” ordered by the state government to bake and decorate cakes to celebrate same-sex marriages.

Lawyers for Jack Phillips, owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop in Lakewood, Colo., said they are evaluating his legal options.

“We asked the Colorado Supreme Court to take this case to ensure that government understands that its duty is to protect the people’s freedom to follow their beliefs personally and professionally, not force them to violate those beliefs as the price of earning a living,” Jeremy Tedesco, senior counsel for Alliance Defending Freedom, said in a formal statement following the news Monday.

I guess they will keep evaluating their legal options.

[Ben Kenobi]

Does it say that he said he would force the catholic church to marry gays in their church. (CLUE) it doesn't.
This is typical fear mongering. I would expect only the ignorant to fall for it. OF course sometimes people live up to the expectations.

What fear mongering? it's a direct quote from Obama that he believes the Catholic church and her teachings on marriage are directly contrary to the federal government, and he intends to bring the power of the federal government to bear on the Catholic church to force us to comply.

[Ben Kenobi]

I guess they will keep evaluating their legal options.

Sure, the courts can ignore it all they like, and people will just ignore the courts. It works both ways.

[Ming]

It may be overturned, it may not be heard, either way - the First prevails despite whatever the court does or doesn't. Justice is justice. We'll continue fighting for it and fighting against it and resisting this every time it comes up.

“The Colorado Supreme Court made the right call. There was no reason to hear this case,” Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United, said in a statement. “Religious freedom is an important constitutional principle, but it doesn’t guarantee businesses the right to deny people services and discriminate against them.”

The Colorado Court of Appeals ruled in August that refusing to bake the cake was discrimination not protected by his right to religious freedom

The Court seems to disagree with your legal expertise.
Justice was done...

[Ming]

Sure, the courts can ignore it all they like, and people will just ignore the courts. It works both ways.

They tried to ignore the courts... and had to pay up anyway.

And yeah, Catholics don't have to marry gays, but gays can get married legally by other religions... it works both ways.

[Ben Kenobi]

Justice was done...

Then I look forward to a day when Catholic priests are shipped to jail for preaching against homosexual marriage and hear you saying the same words.

They tried to ignore the courts... and had to pay up anyway.

6 digit fines for refusing to bake a cake (125k) and you call that justice. Wow.

Do you really think 125k is proportionate?

[Ming]

Then I look forward to a day when Catholic priests are shipped to jail for preaching against homosexual marriage and hear you saying the same words.

Again... making stuff up. Nice try.
I guess you are admitting you are wrong since all you can do is make stuff up or try to change the argument.

Follow the lead of your Pope... At least he gets it.