Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[kentonio]

[Giancarlo]

Run along, minnow.

[rah]

For some reason BK believes every post in this thread is a victory for him. Bigots should never be allowed to think they're winning.

Ben has refused to accept the OFFICIAL opinion of the head of his church and nothing anyone here posts is going to change his feeble mind.

So don't give him anymore satisfaction by posting in this thread. Take the econ stuff to another thread.

[kentonio]

Ben is Ben, and will always Ben until such a time as Aeson Bens him again.

[Giancarlo]

For some reason BK believes every post in this thread is a victory for him. Bigots should never be allowed to think they're winning.

Ben has refused to accept the OFFICIAL opinion of the head of his church and nothing anyone here posts is going to change his feeble mind.

So don't give him anymore satisfaction by posting in this thread. Take the econ stuff to another thread.

Okay.

Fair enough. But if he posts anything about my own background, I will clarify. No more harsh reacting anymore though.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben has refused to accept the OFFICIAL opinion of the head of his church and nothing anyone here posts is going to change his feeble mind.

Where he and the Catechism disagree, absolutely I do.

[Ben Kenobi]

If Giancarlo's Catholic upbringing is typical, he was baptized shortly after birth and confirmed prior to high school. Which means that those "promises to God" are made by the parents, not the child.

Bull****. I teach my students and it is very much their commitment. Giancarlo has changed what he believes, and that's fine, but he still made a promise. Not his parents, he did.

[Giancarlo]

Bull****. I teach my students and it is very much their commitment. Giancarlo has changed what he believes, and that's fine, but he still made a promise. Not his parents, he did.

I didn't make a promise to any religion, certainly not to the damn Catholic church or some make believe deity. You do not understand my culture or background. I did not. So now that is clarified. Anything else?

[Giancarlo]

By the way, confirmation is a sham itself and isn't real. No promise was ever made because it is make believe.

[rah]

Yeah GIAN, we did it in grammar school when we were young. It wasn't really a choice, it was going with the flow. What else could you expect from kids that are only 13.
13 year old kids are not competent to make life long commitments. Not one person in the approx 90 kids didn't participate. That doesn't sound like any actual decision. Which is why they're not able to make legal commitments at that age.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ah so you believe God is stupid and his plan is so simplistic that the choice to replace Benedict with Francis was beyond the scope of his power?

Beyond the scope of his power? No. But then why didn't he choose Francis in the first place? He chose Benedict, Benedict chose instead to resign rather than serve out his office.

So you are wiser than God?

I think Benedict felt overwhelmed and was in poor health when he resigned. I think he told the truth when he stepped down. I sympathize, but again - God chose him, not someone else.

And then god chose a new pope, a divine decision you refuse to accept because you think you are more important than god.

No, I don't think God told Benedict to resign. I think Benedict wanted to resign.

If god chose Francis to be his representative on earth, then his teachings are extremely relevant. Unless you don't actually care what god wants.

If God truly appointed Benedict, then Francis cannot change what Benedict and all the other popes have taught. Full stop.

Don't be idiotic, you are now trying to deny god the power to change Christian teachings?

You need to read up the catechism on infalliability. Again - you claim to know our teachings, but then a little cursory examination reveals this not to be so. I could of course quote the magisterium on this point - Francis cannot change what the Church has taught. If that were so - it would contradict teachings that have already been established.

Have you forgotten a certain episode where he sent his son to earth to radically change how man was to live? Or perhaps you think you are so important that you get to decide how god can and cannot carry out his plan?

Francis is God now? Jesus argued that not the least stroke of the Law has been abolished. You look at what Christ taught in marriage, "in the beginning it was not always so". He was restoring not discarding.

You have become a heretic. You are directly denying gods will, communicated directly to Benedict. So not only defying god, but contradicting the very pope you claim to support.

Yawn. The only source I've seen for the claim that God inspired him to resign is an 'unnamed source'. That is not good enough.

You seem to have the frankly bizarre view that god is so limited in his power that he can only operate through formally established Catholic channels.

Uh, I know that God has chosen to operate in this manner since Christ gave Peter the keys.

Benedict told you that he had stepped aside to devote himself to prayer because "God told me to".

Your source does not claim this. Rather it reports from what an 'unnamed' source claims that he heard Benedict say these things. There is nothing stopping Benedict from saying so himself.

And, it contradicts what Benedict actually did say. Given a contradiction between what Benedict actually did say, and what this is being reported, I have to go with what Benedict actually did say.

Do you now deny that god has the power to communicate with anyone, let alone his representative on earth? Or perhaps you think gods former representative Benedict is a liar?

Either he lied before or the 'unnamed' source is lying now. I don't believe unattributed quotes - ever. Much mischief comes from them.

[Berzerker]

Bull****. I teach my students and it is very much their commitment. Giancarlo has changed what he believes, and that's fine, but he still made a promise. Not his parents, he did.

you teach children they made a commitment to your god when their parents dragged them into catholicism?

shameful

age of consent means nothing to your church?

[Ben Kenobi]

I didn't make a promise to any religion, certainly not to the damn Catholic church or some make believe deity. You do not understand my culture or background. I did not. So now that is clarified. Anything else?

If you were in fact confirmed, you did in fact make these promises before God.

13 year old kids are not competent to make life long commitments. Not one person in the approx 90 kids didn't participate. That doesn't sound like any actual decision. Which is why they're not able to make legal commitments at that age.

Funny that. And rah says that I dissent from the teachings of the Church. 13 is more than old enough to make these decisions. The only thing that has changed is that modern society considers them only old enough to make one decision - have an abortion.

If you're old enough to have an abortion - you're old enough to be confirmed. 13 is old enough.

[Ben Kenobi]

you teach children they made a commitment to your god when their parents dragged them into catholicism?

Yes. I also hold them back if in my eyes they are not ready. Have done that before, and spoken with their parents too. Part of my job was to prepare them so that they would be ready - so that they would actually make a meaningful commitment.

Catechesis, as you can see with rah and Giancarlo does a piss-poor job of preparing them for adult life within the Church. I don't want to make more rahs and Giancarlos.

age of consent means nothing to your church?

13 is past the age of reason.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nobody cares. Slavery was around in the past and the church led the Inquisition. The past is not something that should be repeated.

More people died on 9-11 than have died in the entire history of the inquisition, Gian.