Gunman kills at least 20, injures 42 in Florida gay club shooting.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's actually really odd considering how famous it is. Makes you wonder which other ones are also missing.

Given your thesis, he's better than anyone actually on your list. Given your source, Mother Jones I'm baffled that he's not there. It makes me wonder what other omissions there are to the list and how good that list really is.

[Lorizael]

I think the best, or at least most practical, answer at this point would be a kind of cultural divorce, where we all have our own little bubbles and agree to respect each other's bubbular sovereignty while coming together on points of shared interest such as defense, justice, commerce, and to some extent public health. It is easier than ever before to sort into like-minded groups (exhibit A: here), and thus sorted the groups get more radical and individualized to the point where they no longer wish to coexist. When discourse is segregated, persuasion rapidly loses power. I really don't have all that many shared values with either the bleeding edge of today's progressivism or the reactionary remains of traditional conservatism, and "adjust your values or you'll be a pariah" has no power when you're already part of another group that requires no such adjustment.

The problem is that there is one bubble (or a couple) that includes the reigns of power. You are forced to move into different bubbles and essentially change your identity in order to get a taste of power or even a middle class mode of existence. This is the whole idea behind, say, rants like this from Cosby about how blacks basically need to act like whites. Of course, Cosby is endorsing bubble-jumping rather than, say, acknowledging the inequality of our bubble setup.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, there's always going to be inequality. The problem is how to deal with it in a fashion that improves the lives of most people. I don't see why a black man shouldn't live his life in a fashion in order to improve his life. I've had this conversation with many folks in a similar situation and I keep coming back to it - you have a choice as to what kind of life that you're going to lead. I could have chosen to be a member of one bubble, that I explicitly turned my back on when I was 17. I'm on the side of the builders of all stripes.

[Sprayber]

Gun sales surge among gays, lesbians after Orlando shooting

I suppose that some people eventually decide that being a victim isn't all that glamorous. I'm glad they didn't read Gersh Guntzman's description of firing a gun and decide that it would be too traumatic.

There will be no final solution to things like this because there seems to be zero trust in each other. People who have firearms and use them responsibly are put in a situation where they are made to look like monsters. You have people on the Left who obviously want guns to be taken away and people on the opposing side know this. This in turn makes them reluctant to entertain any advancement in gun control. There is already a ban on automatic weapons. Do we ban all weapons with any type of magazine? Do we go after handguns? I have family members with rifles that have magazines but aren't the super scary looking things that many Americans would consider to be "assault rifles" So what is the solution? How many laws are there now regarding firearms? Are they insufficient or ignored? There are hundreds of millions of weapons that exist right now. How do you prevent things like this without attempting to confiscate them? There are lots of questions but there will be no answers because American's are too busy calling each other mosters and racists and pussys and everything else. Which incidentally only is working for those in power. Be it Republican or Democrat, we continue to play their game of divide and rule. I don't have faith in this country anymore. Perhaps I was wrong to ever have it in the first place. At the end of the day, I want the ability to defend myself and my family. I may suck at it when the moment comes but I want that choice. I don't want to wait for Billy Bob deputy or joe cool police officer to make their way to my house and in the process, shoot my dog or possibly me when they finally get here.

Very depressing living in this country. Perhaps not as bad as other places but damn sure getting there.

[Elok]

The problem is that there is one bubble (or a couple) that includes the reigns of power. You are forced to move into different bubbles and essentially change your identity in order to get a taste of power or even a middle class mode of existence. This is the whole idea behind, say, rants like this from Cosby about how blacks basically need to act like whites. Of course, Cosby is endorsing bubble-jumping rather than, say, acknowledging the inequality of our bubble setup.

But you will never have a cultureless leader-bubble. The bosses will always have some sort of values or priorities. You can make those values a mishmash or compromise of the values of the other bubbles, but never a vacuum. Or you can try to merge all of America back into one bubble, but as Sprayber notes, that's extremely problematic at this point. We no longer function as one united country in a cultural sense.

Also Cosby's speech, if I'm reading your article correctly, is primarily against features of black culture which are intrinsically self-destructive, eg contempt for education, abandonment of effective child-rearing, glamorization of criminality. The bit about having weird names being the exception. I can't think of any way we could incorporate the other behaviors into majority values (assuming Cosby's characterization of them is fair and accurate, etc) without compromising public health and safety.

[Lorizael]

But you will never have a cultureless leader-bubble. The bosses will always have some sort of values or priorities. You can make those values a mishmash or compromise of the values of the other bubbles, but never a vacuum. Or you can try to merge all of America back into one bubble, but as Sprayber notes, that's extremely problematic at this point. We no longer function as one united country in a cultural sense.

But can you understand why historically oppressed people might find this infuriating? "Aw shucks, the only way to have a stable society is to segregate our cultures, and it would just be so difficult to change the rules for which cultural bubble has power. Sigh, I guess that means minorities are going to have sacrifice their identities if they want an equal piece of the pie. Good luck, you guys!"

Also Cosby's speech, if I'm reading your article correctly, is primarily against features of black culture which are intrinsically self-destructive, eg contempt for education, abandonment of effective child-rearing, glamorization of criminality. The bit about having weird names being the exception. I can't think of any way we could incorporate the other behaviors into majority values (assuming Cosby's characterization of them is fair and accurate, etc) without compromising public health and safety.

That might be a bad example. I've seen clips of Cosby criticizing black youth for weird names, dress style, music, manner of speech, etc., and that speech is what I found when I tried googling that.

[Elok]

Well, much of black culture in that respect has gone mainstream; rap is (alas) much more respectable than it used to be, to the point that people take a hip-hopera about Alexander Hamilton seriously as a work of art. Clothing likewise, AFAICT from my largely uninterested and culturally isolated POV. Manner of speech, well . . . does it help that people who speak in a stereotypically lower-class white manner are also unlikely to get a good job? As for the weird names, I find the random collections of Afro-French-ish syllables silly, but no sillier than the names many white people inflict on their children, so I'm with you there.

It might help to be more specific about what we're talking about here. What minority cultural attributes would you like to see incorporated into the dominant culture?

[onodera]

Hard to think up regulation that would have neatly prevented that without infringing on the sovereign right of the individual to own a bunch of killing devices.

Gun lockers?

[onodera]

I wonder what kind of sensible restrictions would American public agree to? I personally would support:

- mandatory firearm registration, no gun show or private sale loopholes
- mandatory personal gun lockers/safes
- no automatic actions, either fully or semi-automatic, no grandfathering

I don't know whether to support or oppose concealed carry/open carry. Perhaps this issue will become irrelevant with revolvers and derringers being the only allowed handguns.

[rah]

mandatory firearm registration,

While as sensible as this sounds, the second people talk about this you get people that will scream that this is the first step that will lead to confiscation. Just plain silly.

[Elok]

As Sprayber noted, the core issue here, like the rest of American politics, is a basic lack of trust. On this or any other controversial issue, the smallest step in either direction will be viewed as a spearhead for more drastic action, and fought tooth and nail.

[Proteus_MST]

"Lack of trust"

That brings me to the thought that the 2nd amendment actually seems to be obsolete, at least with regards to the original thought behind this.

Wasn't the original thought behind the second amendment, that the population should have the means to overthrow the government, if ever there comes a time, when the government acts against the population?

Well, I am sure that with the discrepancy between nowadays military weapons technology and the technology of the weapons the american citizens can buy, I am sure that any uprising by the american citizens will be cut short, if the american military supports the government.
The only thing the weapons in possession of the american citizens will do is, to prolong the civil war and cause more losses among the citizens themselves

[Ben Kenobi]

While as sensible as this sounds, the second people talk about this you get people that will scream that this is the first step that will lead to confiscation. Just plain silly.

Every confiscation scheme has started with a registry. They went so far up in Canada to illegally collect data on firearms owners after long guns were taken off as to continue to collect and retain the data after being ordered to destroy it.

I don't trust the government and neither should you. Not on this issue.

[Ben Kenobi]

- mandatory firearm registration, no gun show or private sale loopholes
- mandatory personal gun lockers/safes
- no automatic actions, either fully or semi-automatic, no grandfathering

So the only way to keep a gun at home is inside a safe? What's next, forcing owners to keep their guns disassembled?

[Ben Kenobi]

That brings me to the thought that the 2nd amendment actually seems to be obsolete, at least with regards to the original thought behind this.

If it were obsolete, then why are there restrictions on gun ownership?