Catholic Answers

[Aeson]

Given that he was the Caliph, this would render attacks on any part of his domain legitimate. Given his claims to all of Islam, it would extend to any Islamic occupied territory, including Jerusalem.

To be clear ... you are saying that the rape and murder of women and children by Crusaders is excusable because the Caliph did something?

[Ben Kenobi]

To be clear ... you are saying that the rape and murder of women and children by Crusaders is excusable because the Caliph did something?

Are you now agreeing with me that Muslims killing innocent Christians and destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was unjustified? And that the Christians calling a Crusade was a measured response to an international atrocity?

[Proteus_MST]

That definition makes no sense. Given the outward support of the Church towards Martel, and the sanction of Pope Gregory II to go to war against Islam, it seems clear to me that the Crusades in the West began with Martel. Are you suggesting that the financial support and crowning Charlemagne as Emperor was insignificant? Isn't that what you cite all the time - where the Church was involved and paying for the war as a sign that the Catholic church supports the Crusade?

Karl Martell also (after Tours) fought against christian realms, like against the Bavarians, Allemannians and Frisians. So does the support of Karl Martell also mean that the catholic church waged a crusade against said christian tribes?

[kentonio]

Are you now agreeing with me that Muslims killing innocent Christians and destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was unjustified? And that the Christians calling a Crusade was a measured response to an international atrocity?

Answer Aeson's question dickhead, and stop trying to wriggle out of it like you always do.

[Ben Kenobi]

Answer Aeson's question dickhead, and stop trying to wriggle out of it like you always do.

I already did. Aeson can now answer mine.

[Ben Kenobi]

Karl Martell also (after Tours) fought against christian realms, like against the Bavarians, Allemannians and Frisians. So does the support of Karl Martell also mean that the catholic church waged a crusade against said christian tribes?

None of whom were Christian at the time. Radbod, King of the Frisians had attempted to kill the Christians in Frisia, explaining why Martel went up to kick his ass.

Do you actually bother reading anything?

[kentonio]

I already did. Aeson can now answer mine.

No you didn't, he asked you a very simple question and you went 'wah wah so you're agreeing with me about this totally different thing that has nothing to do with this!'. Like your normal dishonest cowardly self.

[kentonio]

None of whom were Christian at the time. Radbod, King of the Frisians had attempted to kill the Christians in Frisia, explaining why Martel went up to kick his ass.

Do you actually bother reading anything?

So you can rape and murder women and kids as long as they aren't Christian women and kids?

[Aeson]

Are you now agreeing with me that Muslims killing innocent Christians and destroying the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was unjustified? And that the Christians calling a Crusade was a measured response to an international atrocity?

Killing innocents is always wrong.

The Crusaders killed innocents too ... they were wrong to do so ... the Pope and other Church leaders were wrong to call for and/or excuse those atrocities. As are you for being an apologist for them.

[Ben Kenobi]

No you didn't, he asked you a very simple question and you went 'wah wah so you're agreeing with me about this totally different thing that has nothing to do with this!'. Like your normal dishonest cowardly self.

I suppose you have a point in there somewhere, or are you talking just to hear yourself talk?

[Ben Kenobi]

Killing innocents is always wrong.

Presumably this includes the Christian innocents killed by Islam?

The Crusaders killed innocents too ... they were wrong to do so ... the Pope and other Church leaders were wrong to call for and/or excuse those atrocities. As are you for being an apologist for them.

Do you believe what Islam did to the Christians in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was wrong?

[kentonio]

I suppose you have a point in there somewhere, or are you talking just to hear yourself talk?

So you aren't going to answer his question then? You're just going to run away because you know you don't have a good answer?

[Ben Kenobi]

So you can rape and murder women and kids as long as they aren't Christian women and kids?

Raping and murdering innocents is wrong. Killing murderers who have killed innocents is not. I would support hanging any crusaders who crossed that particular line.

[Ben Kenobi]

So you aren't going to answer his question then? You're just going to run away because you know you don't have a good answer?

Now I have a question for you. Do you believe that the Islamic destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was wrong?

[Aeson]

Presumably this includes the Christian innocents killed by Islam?

Do you believe what Islam did to the Christians in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was wrong?

Look up the meaning of the word "always".