Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

[Bereta_Eder]

Sava maybe got pissed off because he thought that dinner had no empathy.

people who are usually analgetic to the other are usually the same cruel to themselves.
they are unhappy people.

the way you treat the other (more specifically the immigrant) is the gauge to know wether your "bien dans ta peau"

it's sad that most people aren't but we are not about to let them expand their misery worldwide, that would be poor behavior

[Ellestar]

Yes ...
Pegida, for example, the movement that protests against asylum seekers, started in Dresden ... which is interesting, considering that Dresden is an eastern german city that actually (at the time the demonstrations started) had only a tiny percentage of assylum seekers that were housed there (or in its vicinity)
(and Pegida nowadays is actually is seen as a movement that rather is known for rightist propaganda, rather than actually concerned citizens protesting there)

And why exactly Pegida shouldn't protest? More importantly, why you advocate that their portests should be ignored on the grounds of "it's rightist propaganda"?

And please don't make a moron out of yourself and don't put me into that retarded "rightist propaganda" bandwagon just because i say it, i'm not protesting about migrants in Russia in the slightest, and we have many more migrants in Russia, than you have in Germany. But situations in our countries are different, and laws are different, so i think Pegida has the valid reasons to protest (at least their demands on wiki seems okayish).

Unfortunately many people (this includes people responsible at Rotherham, but also some german judges and other officials (who punished people lightly in the past because of their ethnicity)) seem to have forgotten that there are 2 kinds of racism ... negative ("normal" ) racism, where people are disadvantaged (or subjected to negative stereotypes) because of their ethnicity ... but also positive racism, where people are treated better (or subjected to positive stereotypes) because of their ethnicity.

I don't think your explanation is really good. What we see is that races flipped sides in certain cases, usually locals were treated better than foreigners, but with that "tolerance" faith spreading foreigners are treated better than locals in some cases. In either case some nationality is treated better than the other, so it's not about a different kinds of racism (positive/negative, there is no such thing), it's about nationalities switching places.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Most of them are not fleeing war zones. 1/3rd are from the EU, others are from nonwestern countries not at war, and the flood of Syrians didn't come until the second half of 2015 so they aren't even in the 2014 stats.

The Syrian Civil War has been raging since 2011, and even if you don't count that, you've got the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Eritreans, the Libyans- all fleeing regional conflict.

Welfare is the big difference betweenthe US and Sweden. Rather than work for low pay because they are unskilled they say screw that and opt for a life time on the dole. Sadly, their kids mostly end up on the dole too so it is a real problem. A cultural problem.

I'm not even going to bother to ask you for a source for that. You can't back it up.

[Dinner]

I posted it; it is in the youtube video I twice linked you done by the Swedish economist of Iranian background(specifically he speaks about welfare as a deterrent to low wage participation in labor markets). The main differences are higher labor costs and expense of firing people combined with much more lavish social benefits. The safety net does indeed result in some people saying "I make more on the dole than working for minimum wage so that is what I will do."

The National Review numbers are rock sold and the author is a pretty famous author on the subject (he uses official government data and is published in several Swedish newspapers) so there is nothing questionable about them. Wrt the Gladstone Institute, they are a special interest group (right wing tied to the Republican Party) but I did email them asking for clarification and they kindly wrote back saying the numbers were work place participation rates not unemployment rates. The EU average is 70% and places like Sweden have above 80%; those are for working aged adults not including children. So that is indeed a very low work place participation rate (about 50% for men and 25% for women for official participation in the labor market) though the whys of why it is so low is indeed open to interpretation.

Solve such poor performance should be a priority even if it means people must question their sacred cows.

[Dinner]

It's the same in the UK and I'm bloody glad it is after reading this thread. You and Kid appear to be falling over yourselves to find ways to demonize muslims and immigrants and that's genuinely sad. Yes there are problems with integrating large communities of people, but over here the solution to that is to search for ways to make that process easier, not to dig up questionable stats about rape and welfare abuse.

This thread is genuinely making me wonder why I still bother coming here.

Then I am sorry to say you are part of the problem. I freely admit I do not always put things as artfully as possible but the numbers brought up are real and not "questionable" as you claim. Ignoring the problem due to ideological or sensativity fears will not make it go away and only insures it will get worse.

It seems you prefer the head in the sand approach though and THAT is the sad part.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I posted it; it is in the youtube video I twice linked you done by the Swedish economist of Iranian background(specifically he speaks about welfare as a deterrent to low wage participation in labor markets). The main differences are higher labor costs and expense of firing people combined with much more lavish social benefits. The safety net does indeed result in some people saying "I make more on the dole than working for minimum wage so that is what I will do.

Your own sources say that most of them are working. At what point do you concede that what you are suggesting is in no way representative of the whole?

Probably around the same time you concede that if there really are Muslim Rape Gangs, Cologne would be reporting rather more than two rapes on New Years Eve, i suspect.

[Dinner]

My own source said in 2014 in Sweden 58% of ALL immigrants worked, I already went over the various catagories with you once, but that the non-European rate was lower. That source went on (in the second link) to write the specific numbers for the first half of 2015 which were 50% in Sweden for non-European immigrants. The Gladstone figures were not for Sweden though but supposedly work place participation (or so they claimed) for the UK. So two different countries; which seems to be confusing you.

As I have said, the Gladstone numbers are questionable to me while the National Review numbers (for Sweden) seems rock solid. So if you have an alternative source please present it and we can either confirm or deny the Gladstone numbers.

If you know an EU wide source or a source which breaks numbers down by EU member state then I would love to hear it as more information is always better.

[Dinner]

I can't help but feel you are attempting to minimize the hundreds of sexual assaults reported (not to mention the hundreds more of robberies) in Cologne on New Year's Eve. Not to mention all the other cities in the EU where similiar attacks took place (though smaller in scale).

Do you just feel these are not serious problems? I ask because your remarks that there were only two rapes seems to imply that.

[giblets]

My own source said in 2014 in Sweden 58% of ALL immigrants worked, I already went over the various catagories with you once, but that the non-European rate was lower. That source went on (in the second link) to write the specific numbers for the first half of 2015 which were 50% in Sweden for non-European immigrants. The Gladstone figures were not for Sweden though but supposedly work place participation (or so they claimed) for the UK. So two different countries; which seems to be confusing you.

As I have said, the Gladstone numbers are questionable to me while the National Review numbers (for Sweden) seems rock solid. So if you have an alternative source please present it and we can either confirm or deny the Gladstone numbers.

If you know an EU wide source or a source which breaks numbers down by EU member state then I would love to hear it as more information is always better.

That doesn't mean they're lazy. Maybe they have larger families and the women are more likely to stay at home with the kids instead of getting a job. I don't know why you would assume their children will want to live on welfare and not get a job when they grow up.

[Dinner]

I agree, maybe that partially explains why 3 out of 4 women do not work. Now, what about the low labor participation rate for males?

To be clear, my guess is they are mostly unskilled, there is first not much demand for low skilled work in Sweden, that what jobs there are there for unskilled people are of low pay, and so they do the math in their heads and decide they can make more with less work on welfare because the welfare payouts are so great in Sweden. In other worda, such high levels of social benefits payouts discourages work place participation.

Culturally, for many people in Sweden dependence on welfare is a social stigma and a shameful thing. These new groups however do not seem to have that stigma as life long sitting on welfare, apparently, is perfectly fine to them.

So how do you deal with this problem? Clearly, they will not work unless forced to do so and they teach their kids to do the same and you can't just have an ever growing population of nonworking, nonintigrated people abusing the honest hard working taxpayers. So what is to be done as a solution?

[Dinner]

That doesn't mean they're lazy. Maybe they have larger families and the women are more likely to stay at home with the kids instead of getting a job. I don't know why you would assume their children will want to live on welfare and not get a job when they grow up.

Wrt second generation welfare dependency, those numbers have been posted in the two National Review articled linked to earlier in the thread. Please read them so we can both discuss this from an informed position. They do indeed have very low social mobility for this group in Sweden and it tends to be multigenerational at least for this group.

[Bereta_Eder]

Well that's not what I have gathered.
I have gathered that immigrants work hard and according to where they come from and how they are regarded they have to deal with some sh!t but in general are hard working people whos' children for the most part jump two and three social steps upwards to become doctors lawers etc
I have seen them give everything for the education of their children, often to the complete detreament of their own luxury and work the fingers to the bone.
For the most part their pains were largely rewarded so I have trouble seeing what the **** you're talikng about

[Bereta_Eder]

Anyway talking about multiculturalism vs assimilation (I always found the first a bit odd and taken some slack for it)

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35311422

[giblets]

As a conservative, Dinner assumes unemployed people are lazy and choose to be unemployed if they look funny.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah I don't really listen to what he says anymore
(that was polite )

anyway for anyone who wants to enjoy a good police novel (that amazingly describes modern day multicultural paris)

http://www.amazon.fr/Paris-temps-paix-Gilles-Martin-Chauffier/dp/2246789028