Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women

[Dinner]

Kid, JM is right about this according to what I have read. They have a lot of self censorship and fear they will be called a racist if they bring up certain facts. Also if you post the wrong thing in social media half of your friends would probably unfriend you therefore certain topics simply cannot be brought up much less honestly discussed.

We have a strain of that in the US too. Just look at how Sava went off the rails. The political correctness is infectious.

[Kidlicious]

I can talk about it, and could when I lived in Sweden.

A Swedish person would probably consider it 'Anti-Swedish' to maintain that Swedes would have any difficulty living with non-Swedes in Sweden.

JM
(and why should the non-Swede assimilate, their culture/etc is just as valid as the Swedish culture/etc)

I think it's fine if someone doesn't want to assimilate. But I'm talking about, for a Swede, not being able to talk about immigrants assimilating out of fear of even losing their job and friends etc...

[Dinner]

If someone just does not want to intigrate and instead live in a closed immigrant ghetto I guess they should be allowed to do so but they shouldn't get a penny in welfare. That is just enabling bad behavior. Government policy should be about encouraging good or desirable behaviors.

[Dinner]

So why has Sweden failed to integrate immigrants despite extraordinary tolerance and generosity? I suspect that the answer lies in unconditional tolerance itself. Immigrants who have recently arrived lack country-specific human capital. This includes language skills, labor-market experience, and cultural knowledge. In the United States, recent immigrants typically earn less than natives do, but they experience faster wage growth as they accumulate work experience and skills. Immigrants eventually tend to catch up. In the Swedish welfare state, people live comfortably even if they are unemployed. This means that few are willing to accept low-paying or disagreeable work, preferring to live on welfare until something better shows up. But immigrants who never enter the labor market rarely catch up to natives in skills. Immigrants who do not enter the labor market remain isolated from Swedish society. Integration is not only a question of work. It is also about getting to know the natives and learning their customs. This is difficult for unemployed immigrants, who tend to live in segregated areas and often have not once set foot in the home of a native Swede. The generosity of Swedish welfare thus paradoxically traps many immigrants in permanent exclusion from the labor market and, by extension, from society. In segregated neighborhoods, not working eventually becomes the norm through social osmosis, creating a vicious cycle that carries on into the next generation.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...hor&tid=902932

Something about cut and paste messed up the paragraphs.

[Bereta_Eder]

Some things to consider:

dinner "proposes" east europeans to take the place of "mooslims" in germany

that won't happen because:

east europeans don't move en mass to germany
germany needs labour

now that we have this out of the way

unemployment and benefits

france
survey: people sent CV resumes for work. if you have an arab name is FAAAAR less likely to employ you (I suppose it's similar all over)

If they don't employ you, you have no work

If you have no work, you have to live

You will live by stealing or welfare

they will give you welfare so as not to steal


it would be better if there's wasn't racism of course

[Proteus_MST]

If someone just does not want to intigrate and instead live in a closed immigrant ghetto I guess they should be allowed to do so but they shouldn't get a penny in welfare. That is just enabling bad behavior. Government policy should be about encouraging good or desirable behaviors.

If germany ever introduces an unconditional basic income, I hope they only do this after they have established procedures for dividing immigrants/asylum seekers into welcome and unwelcome ones already at the border (so that not, which IMHO is a big problem, people who are denied asylum/immigration can delay their deportation for month if not years, via juridical tricks (actually in germany with the help of certain NGOs))

I have no doubt that the amount of economic refugees who pose as asylum seekers will rise considerably after the introduction of such a thing

[Bereta_Eder]

that giving welfare leads to people not seeking work

bogus

switzerland. one of the richest countries in europe

unemployment 3,7%

welfare policy: you get 70% of your last salary in unemployment bonus for ever (as long as you sent one application per month somewhere and that's it)

if it was 4.000 euros, do your math

[Jon Miller]

Kid, JM is right about this according to what I have read. They have a lot of self censorship and fear they will be called a racist if they bring up certain facts.

I don't think it is a fear of being called racist.

I think that it is the belief that it would not be proper.

Think less 'American' and more 'Victorian England'.

JM

[Jon Miller]

fear of even losing their job and friends etc...

I don't think that is it.

If you aren't Swedish (say a Russian, like a good friend of mine), you say what you want and maintain job/friends. You 'can' say more (in an academic environment) than you 'can' (in an academic environment) in the US. So I don't think it is out of fear of losing job/friends.

JM

[kentonio]

Kid, JM is right about this according to what I have read. They have a lot of self censorship and fear they will be called a racist if they bring up certain facts. Also if you post the wrong thing in social media half of your friends would probably unfriend you therefore certain topics simply cannot be brought up much less honestly discussed.

We have a strain of that in the US too. Just look at how Sava went off the rails. The political correctness is infectious.

It's the same in the UK and I'm bloody glad it is after reading this thread. You and Kid appear to be falling over yourselves to find ways to demonize muslims and immigrants and that's genuinely sad. Yes there are problems with integrating large communities of people, but over here the solution to that is to search for ways to make that process easier, not to dig up questionable stats about rape and welfare abuse.

This thread is genuinely making me wonder why I still bother coming here.

[Kidlicious]

that giving welfare leads to people not seeking work

bogus

switzerland. one of the richest countries in europe

unemployment 3,7%

welfare policy: you get 70% of your last salary in unemployment bonus for ever (as long as you sent one application per month somewhere and that's it)

if it was 4.000 euros, do your math

Dafaq? I would retire at age 25.

[Jon Miller]

Because we are not all Dinner/Kid?

JM
(I realized that I didn't agree with Dinner/Kid quite early and had nothing more to Dinner/Kid about immigration. I do have something to say about Swedes as someone who lived there for 2 years (although now over 4 years in the past))

[Kidlicious]

I don't think that is it.

If you aren't Swedish (say a Russian, like a good friend of mine), you say what you want and maintain job/friends. You 'can' say more (in an academic environment) than you 'can' (in an academic environment) in the US. So I don't think it is out of fear of losing job/friends.

JM

That doesn't surprise me that Russians or Americans can break the norms. But I do wonder if Swedes will be ostracized because some say that they have been.

[Kidlicious]

It's the same in the UK and I'm bloody glad it is after reading this thread. You and Kid appear to be falling over yourselves to find ways to demonize muslims and immigrants and that's genuinely sad. Yes there are problems with integrating large communities of people, but over here the solution to that is to search for ways to make that process easier, not to dig up questionable stats about rape and welfare abuse.

This thread is genuinely making me wonder why I still bother coming here.

You have a serious problem with closed-mindedness.

[Kidlicious]

In Sweden some computer hackers told a tabloid about comments that were made on-line, and who made them. The tabloid went to the people's house and confronted them, and put it on the television. One of the guys who did it belongs to a leftist organization that endorses violence. Might be a Swedish Sava. There might be a lot of Swedish Savas.

http://www.unz.com/isteve/swedens-volunteer-auxiliary-thought-police/

If you say anything controversial on facebook you better not use your real name and tell the world where you work. This is the US. I've been threatened with this, but never fired.

(link doesn't work)