'70 bodies' found in abandoned lorry in Austria

[kentonio]

while ISIS may take some of its ideological inspiration from saudi arabia, its officer corps and intelligence service are dominated by ex-ba'arthists.

Yeah I know, I'm talking about the ideology, which from what I've read is pretty much purely a Saudi invention. The house of Saud apparently joined with the movement to gain power and then crushed them when they got out of hand back in the day.

[dannubis]

south europe can't offer them jobs and a decent living.
just that they won't be killed in a bombing.
that's not enough.

why stay in countries where unemployment has skyrocketed through 20% and more and not go to 7% or 5% countries?
makes sense.

And that makes them economical refugees, which is what the general population in Northern Europe does not support.

[Bereta_Eder]

They fled bombs so by definition they are refugees.

Apart from that, when did it start matter what nothern europe (allegendly) supports?

[Bereta_Eder]

I also have a theory why that has happened now and why Greece has become the focus point.

It is threefold.

1. Change of gov. The previous perfomed push backs (which are illegal) and also tried to enforce dublin 2 keeping them in Greece turning it into a vast misery stoehouse.
The new gov. simply doesn't do pushbacks and marine patrol. You're all welcome and we'll put a boat for you to get to the balkans border safely.
Also a difference were the detension centers. The previous authocratic gov. had put closed detention centers. Meaning the refugees were prisoners. The current one has open center policy. Meaning you can rest here a bit then go to brussels ()

This made Greece attractive. You won't get imprisoned here plus noone is going to push you back to turkey

2. The second reason id geostrategic. After long refusal of turkey to allow the isirlik base to perfom strikes against isis, it now finally has agreed to. But it asked the americans to allow it to perfom attacks on kurds at the same time. Maybe a nice counterwight dropped by washington was an agreement to offload the refugees from the west turkish coast to europe.
This coupled with the pro-immigration policy of the current gov. made the deal work.

3. and the third reason, is the one that simply overules all others. Noone, ever was able to halt immigrational paterns.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Um, I think Greece was chosen because it is the easiest country to get to from Turkey...

End of story.

[giblets]

I'm guessing Greece's immigration policy would probably be a bit different if they didn't have 20+% unemployment and some of the immigrants actually wanted to stay in Greece

[Dinner]

At least the caught the low level Hungarian mafia guys that did it. However, the higher level guys walked and the politicians still don't know what they can do to stop it.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Yeah I know, I'm talking about the ideology, which from what I've read is pretty much purely a Saudi invention. The house of Saud apparently joined with the movement to gain power and then crushed them when they got out of hand back in the day.

That was the old Al Qaeda in Saudi. There was a brief period of attacks against westerners and the Saudis struck down - hard!

ISIS is a hellspawn mutation of Al Qaeda in Iraq, which itself only came about due to the power vacuum caused by the overthrow of Saddam. That and the smart move of A) radicalising Al-Baghdadi by i) invading, ii) locking him up for no particular reason with real, actual trouble-makers he could make friends with and learn from; B) Firing the entire Iraqi army, thus the fact that the operational backbones of all the allied ISIS/Sunni type groups are experienced military/ba'athists

Basically, ISIS is a textbook creation of the US-led invasion of Iraq. The US couldn't have created a more capable insurgent movement if it had actually meticulously planned the whole thing from scratch!

Again, ISIS could never exist anywhere else, because nowhere else in the world is the necessary nexus of crazy religious zeal allied in an opportunistic manner to a huge reservoir of militarily capable pissed off locals hothoused by a badly botched US occupation. ISIS will never be defeated until the Sunni minority is properly treated in Iraq - which will frankly happen over the dead bodies of the majority Shia led government now that they finally have power after so long being persecuted by Saddam.

Also, ISIS could never happen in Saudi because, A) they crushed the previous Al Qaeda incarnation, and B) well, the nearest thing to ISIS in Saudi is the government of Saudi!

[Bereta_Eder]

Um, I think Greece was chosen because it is the easiest country to get to from Turkey...

End of story.

Then why didn't it happen last year?

eh?

you don't know mobius. Beause you're wrong!

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm guessing Greece's immigration policy would probably be a bit different if they didn't have 20+% unemployment and some of the immigrants actually wanted to stay in Greece

Absolutely.

The previous authcratic gov. had us flooded with news about violent immigrents, thieveries etc and everyone was scared.

Now it's you're all free. Now get the hell outa here

[NICE MOBIUS]

Because countries like Jordan and Lebanon closed their borders to more refugees; because after, what is it, four years of this conflict, it's only getting worse; because it's clear that the West doesn't want to lift a finger for fear of supporting the 'wrong type of rebel'; because ISIS is still getting stronger within Syria; because Assad is commensurately getting weaker...

Basically those refugees already in Turkey, or escaping northern Syria have finally got to the point where they see no end in sight and have lost...

...HOPE...

[Bereta_Eder]

Nah

[NICE MOBIUS]

What would you do if you were faced with exactly the same situation as I described above?

[Bereta_Eder]

I'm joking.
This might have contributed too. But the reasons I stated stand.

What I would have done?

If you see the refugees they are exactly like us. I would have done the same.

Lawyers, teachers that have seen thei school bombed to pieces, adolescents that travel alone beacuse their house was bombed and their parents have no money to go with them with aspirations to study, be content.

Totally heartbreaking and a stark reminder of always watch the real culrits for this tragedy.

(although the syrians do get preferensial treatment for historical reasons)


And what a total turnaround compared with the previous gov and his propaganda of fear dehumanization anger.

**** it (actually it has been ****ed)

[NICE MOBIUS]

I agree, but another reason I suppose, as well as finally losing hope of return to Syria in the near future, is that by flooding Europe en masse, it is more difficult for the authorities to prevent them from arriving.

The thing that really makes me sick is right-wing governments in Europe spending millions on fences that are either useless or will only slow people down and make them endanger their lives more, when that money could be used at the source in the refugee camps.