Why has America stopped winning wars?

[kentonio]

Kentonio, do you believe that ISIS is a threat warranting intervention from the United Kingdom?

At this point who the hell knows. ISIS only exists because of poor decisions made by the west. If the military can provide a strategy for an air campaign to support local efforts then maybe that's worthwhile. Any plan for putting soldiers on the ground though is likely to turn into a blood soaked mess. Even with an air campaign, the likelihood is that the collateral damage that always comes with it would raise local support for ISIS unless it was carried out with painstakingly careful pinpoint targeting and that's something we've made a pretty dreadful job of. Largely because its insanely hard to be that precise when you're relying on often quite sketchy intelligence.

[kentonio]

Please fix the forum Aeson.

[Ben Kenobi]

At this point who the hell knows. ISIS only exists because of poor decisions made by the west. If the military can provide a strategy for an air campaign to support local efforts then maybe that's worthwhile. Any plan for putting soldiers on the ground though is likely to turn into a blood soaked mess. Even with an air campaign, the likelihood is that the collateral damage that always comes with it would raise local support for ISIS unless it was carried out with painstakingly careful pinpoint targeting and that's something we've made a pretty dreadful job of. Largely because its insanely hard to be that precise when you're relying on often quite sketchy intelligence.

It's one of those 'stitch in time' things, IMO. Had Obama not pulled out the boots as a political stunt, ISIS wouldn't exist. They were waiting for the American pullout. Obama's just 'managing' the war at this point - that's his exit strategy. He'll talk a lot about putting more boots to the ground, but he'll not do anything as that would be contrary to the "Obama doctrine".

I think at this point, the UK could, if it wanted to, take down ISIS all by itself, no US intervention necessary. Later on that might not be possible, especially if Obama keeps up his strategy of providing them arms and munitions. I think a Kurd/UK joint offensive without the American involvement would be very successful. The key being to keep Obama outside of the loop. If I had any say in it, I'd be solidly behind a Canuckistani/UK offensive without the Americans.

[kentonio]

Thank god you don't have any say in it, as you're clearly an idiot.

[Ben Kenobi]

Thank god you don't have any say in it, as you're clearly an idiot

Interesting. So you're for intervention if the Americans are footing the bill.

[Ben Kenobi]

Blah. Jon Miller.

[PLATO]

Basically just this. Oh and properly investigate/prosecute your leaders when they disregard intelligence and take you into wars that turn out to have been launched under false pretenses. We need to also do this in the UK. Honest mistakes are one thing, but ordering the suppression of intelligence that disagrees with you so you can put a more compelling case to the public should be the kind of thing that leads to jail time when it blows up in your face.

Don't forget about the large convoy that left Iraq for Syria just two nights before the invasion.

[C0ckney]

one other aspect that hasn't been mentioned is the inability to put together effective local forces in occupied countries.

we have seen the afghan national army that, after many years and countless billions expended on it, can scarcely fight a battle unaided; it's basically useless. but that's nothing compared to the iraqi army, which is so incompetent and riddled with corruption that it has inadvertently made the US the islamic state's largest arms supplier. hastily organised and trained shia militias have outperformed it when fighting the islamic state. if i were an american military planner, my first priority would be to look into why this is.

[C0ckney]

i suspect it's related to what the article hints at: a lack of local knowledge and understanding, and also most probably the attempt to impose western doctrines without regard for local circumstances.

[PLATO]

i suspect it's related to what the article hints at: a lack of local knowledge and understanding, and also most probably the attempt to impose western doctrines without regard for local circumstances.

I couldn't agree more. Makes one wonder who our specialists are on these situations and why they are either incompetent or not being listened to.

[PLATO]

JM

[Alexander's Horse]

The USA has become like ancient Rome - lost all the battles and won all the wars. I wouldn't worry too much

[Ben Kenobi]

It takes time. How long were the Brits in India?

[N35t0r]

The USA has become like ancient Rome - lost all the battles and won all the wars. I wouldn't worry too much

And then the barbarians came...

[BlackCat]

one other aspect that hasn't been mentioned is the inability to put together effective local forces in occupied countries.

we have seen the afghan national army that, after many years and countless billions expended on it, can scarcely fight a battle unaided; it's basically useless. but that's nothing compared to the iraqi army, which is so incompetent and riddled with corruption that it has inadvertently made the US the islamic state's largest arms supplier. hastily organised and trained shia militias have outperformed it when fighting the islamic state. if i were an american military planner, my first priority would be to look into why this is.

I quite agree that the Iraqui army is kind of a joke - air support, armoured vehichles etc. and they are running backwards, but it's a bit different in the north. Despite lack of artillery and heavy panzer, they held the lines reasonably until the air strikes helped them. If they got some arty and panzer they could make things quite difficult for ISIS. Unfortunatedly, they are Kurds which means that it demands some really big balls to give them such weapons. Turkey would scream that it would be arming a teorrist organisation, Iraq central gov would be scared of kurdish secession, and Iran would panic and fear that their kurds would get ideas of joining a kurdish state.

It's kind of depressing that the party that could destroy ISIS on the ground can't get the nessecary weapons because it would disturb several hornets nests