Why has America stopped winning wars?

[Hauldren Collider]

The nutty thing about that is that there should be a Kurdish state. Kurds deserve their own independent homeland. And an independent Kurdistan would probably be an extremely successful country, and grow rapidly into someplace prosperous like Israel.

[BlackCat]

Totally forgot - Mobby has of course drunk heavily of the piss pot when he claims that air strikes only kille women and children and make the locals angry.

[BlackCat]

The nutty thing about that is that there should be a Kurdish state. Kurds deserve their own independent homeland. And an independent Kurdistan would probably be an extremely successful country, and grow rapidly into someplace prosperous like Israel.

The same could be said about Palestine.

[PLATO]

The same could be said about Palestine.

Yes it could...of course it would not be as true as it would be in the Kurd's case, but it certainly could be said.

[BlackCat]

Yes it could...of course it would not be as true as it would be in the Kurd's case, but it certainly could be said.

Don't get me wrong - if such a palestinian state use their GDP on sending rockets against Israel, I don't mind that Israel answer back

If they choose to do otherwise they could easily match Israel as a prosperous and peaceful country.

[PLATO]

Don't get me wrong - if such a palestinian state use their GDP on sending rockets against Israel, I don't mind that Israel answer back

If they choose to do otherwise they could easily match Israel as a prosperous and peaceful country.

Yes...I think Palestine could become a peaceful and prosperous country (much to do Politically for them for this to ever happen), but the Kurds have a leg up in many ways to them. "Kurdistan" has oil for one thing. Also, they have a pretty cohesive government whereas the Pals are pretty much broken up into factions. Sure, there are competing factions among the Kurds as well, but they do seem to work together when the chips are really down. Kurdistan could really become a model country without wholesale change. Palestine, on the other hand, has a very long way to go to begin to reach its potential.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Interesting to hear Moby call for increasing the boots on the ground in Iraq.

Interesting to hear BK call for increasing the sodomisation of Catholic school history class children - the poor deaf idiot thought we were looking for 'weapons of ass destruction...'

[C0ckney]

I quite agree that the Iraqui army is kind of a joke - air support, armoured vehichles etc. and they are running backwards, but it's a bit different in the north. Despite lack of artillery and heavy panzer, they held the lines reasonably until the air strikes helped them. If they got some arty and panzer they could make things quite difficult for ISIS. Unfortunatedly, they are Kurds which means that it demands some really big balls to give them such weapons. Turkey would scream that it would be arming a teorrist organisation, Iraq central gov would be scared of kurdish secession, and Iran would panic and fear that their kurds would get ideas of joining a kurdish state.

It's kind of depressing that the party that could destroy ISIS on the ground can't get the nessecary weapons because it would disturb several hornets nests

interestingly, turkey and the kurdish government in northern iraq have very cordial relations and co-operate with each other. the kurds fought well in the mountains, but found themselves hard pressed on the plains against IS; the situation seems to have stabilised, though. part of this seems to be related to a lack of desire on the kurds' part. of course it would be impolitic to say so publicly, but the kurds don't want to fight for the iraqi state that oppressed and gassed them; why should they? they've taken kirkuk; and unless IS presses them too hard, they will probably not want to conduct any major operations outside kurdish areas. there are problems when moving into arab or heavily mixed areas. for example there is a report going round at present about a yazidi militia carrying out a massacre of arab civilians who had returned to their villages in sinjar. i doubt the kurds want to deal with too many problems like that.

the situation with the syrian kurds is very different. the turks back IS as openly as they can. this is perhaps unsurprising as a large part of the kurdish fighters are from turkey. the turks are worried about the syrian kurds establishing a successful non-state in northern syria and see it as a long-term threat, as well they might. the syrian kurds are doing well though; their forces will unite the cizire and kobanê cantons very shortly, thus cutting an islamic state supply line from turkey. the coalition air strikes have aided them considerably, but their own poorly equipped forces - they are the worst armed faction in the syrian civil war - have done superbly against IS in recent times, despite modest outside support; even their relations with the iraqi kurds are somewhat frosty.

[Ben Kenobi]

The same could be said about Palestine.

Given the prosperity in what is now Israel, then vs now, I have my doubts. They had their shot. They were given a deal with land and everything. Then decided to piss in their own pot, and lost. Tough ****s for them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Interesting to hear BK call for increasing the sodomisation of Catholic school history class children - the poor deaf idiot thought we were looking for 'weapons of ass destruction...'

Well, your argument states that air strikes are ineffective. The solution to that is more boots in the ground.

[Berzerker]

Kentonio, do you believe that ISIS is a threat warranting intervention from the United Kingdom?

No, one of Bush's many mistakes was trying to recreate one country out of what are in reality 3 countries. ISIS is the Sunni push back against the Shia and Iran. But we jumped in again...

[Ben Kenobi]

No, one of Bush's many mistakes was trying to recreate one country out of what are in reality 3 countries. ISIS is the Sunni push back against the Shia and Iran. But we jumped in again...

I actually agree with you on that, but that ship sailed a long time ago. I'd rather have a peaceful, democratic Iraq rather than the ****hole that the Obama withdrawal brought about. His fecklessness will undo what all those lives were fighting for - to help the people of Iraq.

[Berzerker]

Obama withdrawal? That was Bush who negotiated our withdrawal and the reason we had to leave is because the Iraqis were insisting on removing immunity for our soldiers.

Those lives were lost undoing a mistake - Iraq should never have existed as a political entity

[korn469]

I disagree with the article, because it seems like he is judging all victories against the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany along with Imperial Japan and their reconstruction as the mark of victory.

So according to the article

Since 1945, in terms of victory in a major war, the United States is one for five.

According to him 1-4-0 (Wins, losses, draws)
Korean War - winner North Korea
Vietnam War - winner North Vietnam
Gulf War - Winner U.S. and allies
Iraq War - winner insurgents
Afghan War - winner Taliban

According to me 5-0-5 (Wins, losses, draws)
Korean War - Draw between U.S./China
Vietnam War - Draw Between U.S. and Socialist Republic of Vietnam along with its backers in USSR and China, rapidly followed by Victory for the SRV over the RoV in 1975
Grenada - Victory for the U.S.
Panama - Victory for the U.S.
Gulf War - Victory for the U.S. led coalition
Somalia - Draw/Pyrrhic victory for the U.S
Bosnia - Victory for the U.S. led coalition
Kosovo - Victory for the U.S.
Afghanistan - Draw/Pyrrhic victory for the U.S.
Iraq - Draw/Pyrrhic victory for the U.S.

To achieve WWII style victories it seems that you have to kill or seriously wound 40-75% of all of the combatants and completely destroy their ability to arm and supply combatants. In today's civil wars most of the weapons are not produced by the factions fighting the battles, so it is impossible (minus a nuclear apocalypse) to destroy the ability of the U.S. Russia, the E.U., China, or some other group (Iran, India, Pakistan, North Korea, the Gulf Cooperation Council, etc.) to provide weapons to and supplies to one side or the other.

I guess my question is who has won WWII style victories since WWII?

-North Vietnam, it fought the U.S. to a draw, then defeated the South, and to an extent has rebuilt and rejoined the international community.
-China is close. The PRC does have undisputed control of mainland China, but Taiwan/RoC has lived on and is a significant threat/thorn in the side of the PRC.

Any other suggestions?

[korn469]

double post