What is the deal with Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Catholics.

[Ben Kenobi]

My definition of sanctification is surrendering everything to God. What's yours?

Perfection. "Be ye perfect".

[Bereta_Eder]

Nothing.

there was some commotion down in israel and there was this dude that was peaceful but also didn't like to see his people enslaved.
So he was a hippie but sometimes he listened to some hard rock and let some testosterone loose.

then the graeco-roman civ took his teachings, some were fed up with the orgies, and adapted them and hence came christianity

[Ben Kenobi]

To repeat, since you have the power to choose good you're placing undo importance on the fact that he was sinless, and it's totally unnecessary for him to be incapable of sin.

Where did I say he was incapable of choosing sin? Never said that at all. I merely said that he was sinless - in that he was without sin. Just because you are without sin doesn't mean that you cannot choose sin, look at Adam and Eve.

[Kidlicious]

Perfection. "Be ye perfect".

Why then are we told to be perfect if it's not within our power, if God makes us that way after we die?

[Kidlicious]

Where did I say he was incapable of choosing sin? Never said that at all. I merely said that he was sinless - in that he was without sin. Just because you are without sin doesn't mean that you cannot choose sin, look at Adam and Eve.

"What if God, by his nature, were Good, such that evil couldn't be present at all?"

"""

[Ben Kenobi]

Why then are we told to be perfect if it's not within our power, if God makes us that way after we die?

One, because a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Two, because it's not about us - it's about the glory of God.

Three, it is because it's about us, because it's about making us the way we were always supposed to be.

[Ben Kenobi]

"What if God, by his nature, were Good, such that evil couldn't be present at all?"

Well I was thinking more of YHWH, because evil cannot stand his presence. Christ is not quite the same in that he had a sinless human nature. He still could have chosen sin - the same choice that Adam and Eve had, in His incarnation. That's again why he's the second Adam, like Mary is the second Eve.

[kentonio]

Otherwise redemption doesn't work and we're all still in our sins. Rather than having imperfect sacrifices, our sins demand the sacrifice of something perfect in order to stand in place for all our sins for all time.

Which is covered by him finding purity at the point of death.

Why then did Adam and Eve fall if they were free of sin? Temptation is still there, Kentonio. Free of sin is different from free of temptation.

Adam and Eve have nothing to do with this, please try not to scattergun. Purity and complete absence of sin (ie a God-like state) suggests temptation is no longer temptation as the subject has ascended beyond that.

How do you square this with Matthew 3? God was already pleased with Christ at his baptism.

If he wasn't flawed, then what would be the point of feeling pleased with him (or himself basically)?

[Kidlicious]

Trinitarians (most Christians, including Catholics and most Protestants) hold the Trinitarian view of Christ. That He was fully human and fully divine and as being fully divine never succumbed to temptation (being tempted is not sin, falling to temptation is sin. example: being tempted by Ben to 'drive to his town and beat some sense into him' happens to most of us (the temptation comes from Ben, not from us), while actually 'going to his town and beating him' (or even fantasising about it) would be a choice on our part and a sin ).

Even most groups of Christians which are not trinitarian or not purely trinitarian (Adventists do not require members to be trinitarian, but most non-historical (historical=reactionary) members are) hold that Christ was sinless. This is because it was an important component of Pauline Christianity and is in the Bible (Hebrews explicitly). It is possible to find people who do not hold to the sinless nature of Christ, but mostly those liberal-mainline who don't believe that Christ was God (I have heard it from Adventists too, including the reactionary/historical flavor).

Since Christianity is synonymous with Pauline Christianity outside of theology, Christ is sinless in Christianity.

JM

This view ignores the point that Paul used hyperbole, which is consistent with the bible as a whole. Christian means follower of Christ, not a member of a church, or religion, necessarily.

[kentonio]

This view ignores the point that Paul used hyperbole

I think its a safe bet that lots of bits were hyperbole, turns of phrase and so on. Then over the centuries people couldn't help taking it all literally..

[Kidlicious]

I think its a safe bet that lots of bits were hyperbole, turns of phrase and so on. Then over the centuries people couldn't help taking it all literally..

Either that or they reject/ignore it because it doesn't make sense to them.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I'm willing to get Jesus broke numerous alcohol licensing laws in that wedding at Cana.

[Jon Miller]

But it was Jesus himself was the one who told his disciples to buy a sword:

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
—Luke 22:36, NIV

Why would he tell them to buy swords, if he didn´t want them to use them ... a sword, after all, is a rather specialized tool that isn´t meant to be used for peaceful purposes

He didn't want them to use the sword.

Read the scripture, He ad been talking figuratively and was relating this to fulfilling scripture and not armed rebellion/defense/etc.

37 For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was counted among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” He replied, “It is enough.”

and

http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/7121/why-did-jesus-tell-his-disciples-to-buy-a-sword

JM

[Kidlicious]

He broke the law over a dozen times in the gospels.

[Dinner]

Obviously, she was a slut having a child out of wedlock and cavorting with three different aspects of a diety.