"Kansas has found the ultimate way to punish the poor"

[giblets]

They wouldn't be called "cartels" if they weren't drug cartels. Drug cartels couldn't exist if drugs were legal.

[Ben Kenobi]

Mexico has been fighting our drug war for decades

So the solution is to simply turn over the keys and give up? No. If you want to live in a war zone, go move there. Don't mess with Texas.

I'm ok with public dollars protecting Texas from the Cartel drug runners. I've seen some of the harm close up and personal from that crap.

We pressured them into turning their societies into war zones.

Ahh, bull****. What happened is that the government officials in both Mexico and Colombia encouraged drug cultivation, as a means to acquire cold hard American currency. They were suppliers, berz. Wherever it's been encouraged through official sanction has seen massive, massive drug problems. America is not immune.

The cartels exist because people like you banned drugs, the same thing happened with Prohibition - banning booze led to the creation of cartels and homicide rates about doubled. When was the last time you heard about alcohol cartels having shootouts over market share?

No, the Cartels exist because of the official (or unofficial), sanction by the government officials that wanted money. It's because of folks like you buying drugs which is why they thrive. Demand side is to blame here.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Where's your right to get high, Berz? I don't see it anywhere.

Thats the 9th Amendment to the Constitution and the reason it was added is because people like you would confuse the enumeration of certain rights to mean or imply other rights didn't exist.

So what you're conceding is exactly what I said, you have no right enumerated right to get high.

the 1st Amendment protects the religious use of drugs.

AHAHA. No, it doesn't.

Thats why wine was still allowed for Catholics during Prohibition.

Well, sure because they ran into a problem with the fact that Catholic communion is required to use wine. Are you suggesting that we get drunk at communion and we have a right to do so, Berz?

I don't see that enumerated anywhere. I didn't challenge your right to use drugs. I challenged your right to get high. I see that nowhere. There are plenty of laws regarding public drunkenness, disturbing the peace, substance abuse while driving, etc.

I ask again - where is there an enumerated right to get high, Berz?

And one more thing, the Constitution is a grant of enumerated powers to the Federal government, there is no enumerated power to punish people for smoking a plant.

Are you suggesting that the supreme court has struck down public drunkenness laws? Laws regulating the buying and selling of alcoholic substances as unconstitutional?

Does Congress have the enumerated power to fund Israel's welfare state?

Are you suggesting that the constitution says that America shouldn't stand with her allies?

[Ben Kenobi]

They wouldn't be called "cartels" if they weren't drug cartels. Drug cartels couldn't exist if drugs were legal.

Presumably armed insurrection is illegal too. Arguing that the Cartels would vanish with legalization is a myth.

[Berzerker]

I doubt Madison intended people to smoke crack and kill fetuses.

That would make him awfully arrogant, how people live their lives aint his business...or yours. But we do know that he intended to limit the power of Congress and not even they had the power to decide what we all ingest.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's no explicit mention of a right to life for fetuses in the Constitution. I guess Ben's arguments for criminalizing abortion go out the window.

Fourteenth Amendment.

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Next up?

[Ben Kenobi]

That would make him awfully arrogant, how people live their lives aint his business...or yours. But we do know that he intended to limit the power of Congress and not even they had the power to decide what we all ingest.

Berz, there's a reason it's not an enumerated right. Governments have always regulated the trade and distribution of alcoholic products since well before the revolution. That will continue now as then. This is why the government can regulate it.

[giblets]

Presumably armed insurrection is illegal too. Arguing that the Cartels would vanish with legalization is a myth.

They would lose their primary funding source. Organized crime in Mexico would be qualitatively different without all the drug money coming in. It's not a "myth". You're a ****ing idiot.

[giblets]

Fourteenth Amendment.



Next up?

No. If you disagree, provide some court cases where fetuses were found to have a right to life under the 14th amendment. Or even show evidence that the people who wrote the 14th amendment intended for it to cover fetuses.

[giblets]

Berz, there's a reason it's not an enumerated right. Governments have always regulated the trade and distribution of alcoholic products since well before the revolution. That will continue now as then. This is why the government can regulate it.

They needed an amendment to actually make alcohol illegal. Are you seriously a history teacher?

[Ben Kenobi]

They needed an amendment to actually make alcohol illegal. Are you seriously a history teacher?

Did they need an amendment to make crack illegal?

They would lose their primary funding source. Organized crime in Mexico would be qualitatively different without all the drug money coming in. It's not a "myth". You're a ****ing idiot.

Stop doing drugs, stop getting high = 0 cartels.

[Ben Kenobi]

No. If you disagree, provide some court cases where fetuses were found to have a right to life under the 14th amendment. Or even show evidence that the people who wrote the 14th amendment intended for it to cover fetuses.

Right to life is an enumerated right in the 14th Amendment. Next up?

As for intent- look at the preamble.

You're the one arguing that the right to life should be denied to a certain class of people that you regard as less than persons. Same as what the 14th was determined to eliminate.

[giblets]

Did they need an amendment to make crack illegal?

Stop doing drugs, stop getting high = 0 cartels.

1. No since Congress is now happy to do things that don't have an explicit constitutional mandate.
2. That'll never happen. What are you going to do, make the penalties even more harsh than they already are? You're a psychopath.

[Berzerker]

So the solution is to simply turn over the keys and give up? No. If you want to live in a war zone, go move there. Don't mess with Texas.

The solution is ending the drug war, take the profits away from the cartels

I'm ok with public dollars protecting Texas from the Cartel drug runners. I've seen some of the harm close up and personal from that crap.

Banning drugs created the cartel drug runners... Just stop complaining about your taxes, other people are paying for stuff you want and you're ok with it.

Ahh, bull****. What happened is that the government officials in both Mexico and Colombia encouraged drug cultivation, as a means to acquire cold hard American currency. They were suppliers, berz. Wherever it's been encouraged through official sanction has seen massive, massive drug problems. America is not immune.

You mean the US has not pressured Mexico and Colombia to fight drug wars?

No, the Cartels exist because of the official (or unofficial), sanction by the government officials that wanted money. It's because of folks like you buying drugs which is why they thrive. Demand side is to blame here.

Folks like me didn't ban drugs, folks like you did. Demand is not the problem, supply is... Banning drugs allows cartels into the supply side of the equation, legalizing drugs removes cartels from the equation. Colorado and Washington legalized pot thereby reducing the market for cartels. But according to you, they should be over run with cartels.

Where's your right to get high, Berz? I don't see it anywhere.

Religious freedom, freedom of conscience...

So what you're conceding is exactly what I said, you have no right enumerated right to get high.

I didn't say that

AHAHA. No, it doesn't.

Thats quite the rebuttal... Does the 1st Amendment protect reading the Bible? It doesn't say that. How about attending church? Doesn't say that either. Does it protect the Catholic Church from hiring you to misinform children? It doesn't mention you or your church.

Well, sure because they ran into a problem with the fact that Catholic communion is required to use wine. Are you suggesting that we get drunk at communion and we have a right to do so, Berz?

Well sure what? Thats religious drug use. Jesus got a bunch of people drunk, who am I to say Christians dont have the right to get drunk?

I don't see that enumerated anywhere. I didn't challenge your right to use drugs. I challenged your right to get high. I see that nowhere. There are plenty of laws regarding public drunkenness, disturbing the peace, substance abuse while driving, etc.

Public is not private, you're now comparing driving a car down the street with religion. Seems to me your obsession with "enumerated rights" is calculated to ignore the 9th Amendment. You know, it is part of the Constitution.

Are you suggesting that the supreme court has struck down public drunkenness laws? Laws regulating the buying and selling of alcoholic substances as unconstitutional?

Public is not private and when Prohibition was repealed it specifically allowed the states to continue the ban.

Are you suggesting that the constitution says that America shouldn't stand with her allies?

Does Congress have the enumerated power to fund Israel's welfare state?

[giblets]

Right to life is an enumerated right in the 14th Amendment. Next up?

As for intent- look at the preamble.

You're the one arguing that the right to life should be denied to a certain class of people that you regard as less than persons. Same as what the 14th was determined to eliminate.

The 14th amendment explicitly mentions people who were born in the United States, do you have any evidence at all that it was intended to cover fetuses?

[Berzerker]

Fourteenth Amendment.

Next up?

how does the Constitution define "person"?

it aint a fetus, you gotta be born.